Y1 child very gifted at Maths

[ILJG]

Hi,

Writing here in the hopes of getting some guidance on how best to approach the situation of our son abilities in Maths. We live in the UK and DS just started on Y1 this term. He was born late June 2016, so on the youngest side of his class. Just to explain at what level his Maths are, after an half term on Y1 he can menthally do things like:

• add and subtract numbers up to at least 10,000;
• knows numbers up to the trillions;
• do complex multiplications, like calculate 15 to the power of 3 (15x15x15);
• does divisions and simple square roots;
• knows timetables up to 12, to the point that does 60s time attacks on doodle timetable with at least 15 answers, all correct;
• he understands the concept on infinity. Once I asked him what a number divided by infinite would be, and he not only gave me right answer, he also explained how he deducted it;
• his teacher recentelly taught him prime factorization, 2 days after that I asked him if he could determine the prime factors of 540, and it took him about 20sec on his way to school to do it menthally;
• and yeah, ha knows what a prime number is;
• the speed that he learns new Maths related things is staggering. He just understands the concept behind it, sometimes wiithout the need to give written examples. I taught him successfully negative numbers in about 10sec;
• and I could go on...

So, he has some serious brain horsepower when it comes to Maths. He loves all things that are logic based, and this was all mainly led by himself. He really enjoys Maths, likes to watch Maths related stuff on Youtube, loves all sorts of STEM toys too. On all other areas of learning he appears to be remarkably average. He is socially well adjusted, has plenty of friends and loves school.

In class his teacher is giving him some extra Maths work for DS to feel challenged, which is a good thing. However, it appears to be without any "structure" to it, just some random Y4, Y5 or Y6 subjects that teacher thinks will keep DS busy. Teacher must also not be too sure on how much DS knows, and since his "home learning" so far did not follow any formal structure, DS definitely has some basic knowledge gaps. For example, he can add numbers up 10,000 mentally, but he doesn't know how to do it in a piece of paper.

Both me and my wife were quite acomplished academically in Maths, both top of class, myself more naturally gifted, mom relying more on grit and work ethics. We both have Masters degrees in a related area. We came to the UK less then a decade ago and DS is our first child. He always realized he was quite able, after all we did teach him a few things when he asks about them, but only in lockdown during reception did we realized how far advanced he was in relation to his peers. At the time we sought advice from school on if we should stimulate this further or not, and they just said to continue to do the same. And so we have been doing, at his own pace. But being perfectly honest, it is becoming very disconcerting to see a 5 year old doing maths often quicker than his very accomplished mom, and with a speed not far from my own.

The main driver for this post is that both me and my wife had no contact with UK school system until now, so we are a bit unsure on the best way forward. The teacher his willing to give him extra work, however we feel it may be good to try to baseline his current level of knowledge to assist in developing a more structured learning plan. I read online we can get him tested by an education psichologist, but what sort of result will we get from it? Surely it will measure his ability, IQ, but will it identify learning gaps on specific maths topics? Also, how should the school assist? They have an appointed SENco, however online I find mixed answers on if this person is the best route for getting the necessary support for a gifted child? There are also council educational psichologists, shall we give it a go at that? We just had our parents evening and teacher mentioned Potential Plus UK as well. Pretty hefty fees in their assessments though, but we may be willing if its worth it, did anyone used their services that can offer some insight? And apart from the obvious short term benefits of getting the assessment report, on a longer term is there any benefit in having this certificate for ingress in schools in the future, etc? What about thoughts on joining Mensa? Any other advice on how best to take advantage of DS amazing ability?

Thanks a lot in advance

You may find this book useful:
www.amazon.co.uk/Developing-Math-Talent-Comprehensive-Elementary/dp/159363496X/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Computer instruction can be very effective (and would make things easier for the school, if you can make them see that)
maths-whizz (www.whizz.com/) has a built-in assessment that will show your child's level in different areas and align the content to just beyond that, i.e. it is adaptive. It's also aligned with UK curriculum and covers everything up to year 8.
beastacademy.com/ is not adaptive or aligned with UK curriculum but it is specifically designed for mathematically gifted primary kids. There is nothing else like it (the online version is fine to start with and is more convenient than the books, which ship from the US).

Most SENCos won't have experience of gifted assessment or provision. G&T was de-funded in state schools in 2011. There is a test called Keymath3 which can be done by teachers/SENCos which would let them see what level he is working at.
An ed psych assessment would be worthwhile if you can get one, and would let you see if it's just maths or more general. Not all ed psychs have experience of gifted assessment.

Potential plus is worth a look. this Facebook group is mainly used by PP members and is worth joining.
www.facebook.com/groups/422127737839473

mensa don't really do anything helpful for children - the PP members who have joined have found it to be a waste of money. FWIW I would avoid.

Re: "what sort of result will we get from it? Surely it will measure his ability, IQ, but will it identify learning gaps on specific maths topics?"

An ed psych assessment generally consists of an IQ test such as the Weschler (WISC) or BAS, and a test of academic attainment such as the WIAT.
The WISC doesn't just give a single number - there are a range of index scores such as verbal comprehension, perceptual reasoning, working memory and processing speed. The profile within these is as important as the overall IQ number. The WIAT will give scores for reading, spelling, arithmetic. However these tests don't "break down" maths into curriculum areas so that specific gaps could be identified.

The Keymath3 assessment only assesses maths, but it does break down different areas of maths and gives at least 10 scores in separate areas. so it can identify that a kid is working at one level in e.g. multiplication and division, but a very different one in geometry or algebra. The adaptive assessments in mathswhizz and IXL do the same thing, i.e. a breakdown into 10+ areas. mathwhizz then tries to "even out" the profile by focusing on weaker areas.

I read online we can get him tested by an education psichologist, but what sort of result will we get from it?

The report is fairly comprehensive and, like a PP said, covers all sorts of things. I had DD tested for different reasons a couple of years ago.

An Ed Psych assessment will look for potential , strengths and weaknesses, how he approaches a task and what level he is currently at. Not only in maths and numerical reasoning but literacy, processing speeds, comprehension, problem solving, verbal skills etc. It won't say he is more advanced in one area of the maths curriculum but less so in others. You would need a teacher or tutor to do that.

I clicked on this as I thought I may be able to relate and give advice. I have a DS in year 1 who is pretty advanced in maths and average in other subjects. However after reading your post his ability is nothing compared to what you list above. He does hoover up the maths learning very quickly though and can do mental arithmetic quicker than DH and I with large numbers too which can be a bit strange as you say (I have a degree in Maths/Stats and DH Masters in Engineering so it's not that we are below average in this area!).

We recently spoke to DS's teacher and they are doing what they can to stretch and challenge him but tbh it's just the syllabus from further up the school which they admit that's all they can really do. 'We've gone as deep as we can and appreciate his patience...!'. So it's up to us really if we want to do anything further.

Your DS has clearly some pretty extraordinary gift though (rather than 'just' being ahead and good at maths). The posts above are helpful and others may be along to give advice too!

Maths is one of those subjects where it is easy to be streets ahead of your peers. However, it is not really advisable. Maths-learning builds on what went before; if you are not careful you can "run out" of syllabus. You could look up the sad story of Ruth Lawrence who galloped ahead too fast and graduated aged 13! (Due to her pushy father, I'm not trying to say that you are that pushy parent.)
Try to go sideways. to do things that aren't on the syllabus. Or do non-Mathematical things, ideally things that don't come easily so he learns to work at a subject.

Assessments are only any use if teachers act on them, which they tend not to. I would leave off such matters until you are nearing the age to be thinking about secondary schools.

There are also council educational psichologists, shall we give it a go at that?

That is highly unlikely to happen. Schools have limited EP time, and are highly unlikely to use it for DS. They don't even have enough hours to support DC with SEN who desperately need assessing.

@extrastrongmints, thanks a lot for all your insights! Just ordered the book, sent invite to the PP FB group and will definitely have a closer look to all the websites you suggested. Funny you mentioning computer instruction as we have recently decided to try to steer his attention to that. We have searched online for coding or robotics related activities, and Santa is gonna bring him a Lego Boost robot as a Xmas present. Most courses are for older kids, but probably they could take him on if we explained his ability for logical thinking. His interests are definitely not just Maths, I play checkers and chess with him, he loves board games (he recently started playing the adult version of Catan, is about to finish advanced levels of Gravity Maze, etc). He wanted so much another version of the marble run set he already owns that he paid for it with his own money. The designs he does combining the 2 sets are quite spectacular. Oh, and he already understands money and the concept of saving, buying, etc, and recently we started giving him a small weekly allowance of him to manage.

You mention Keymath3 assessment that is done by teachers and SENcos. Is that an assessment that is to be done by his school?

@needabreak5, up until last year we found the whole situation kind of funny. But now is kind of getting to the point where it is becoming a bit much. I'm very accomplished at Maths and I have a very high processing speed and all my life I've done mental arithmetic's, and still do. Very rarely over the course of my life have I found people with the same speed as me, and now I have a not even 5 and an half year old inching on it. Sometimes it feels like I'm in a movie. He's always counting. We have to be careful giving him timeframes, like "another 5min and you are getting that ice cream". Because he is gonna quietly count to 300 and ask for the ice cream. Once he counted his steps while walking to school (almost 600no). He mentioned to us that often when he is quiet he is doing maths in his head. It's just insane!

@Imitatingdory, unfortunately it doesn't surprise me that the council route is no go.

Thanks you all for your responses so far, you are of great help

Like others have said, the advice now isn’t too accelerate them but to go for depth/mastery. It can be difficult though.

DS2 is also yr1 and pretty similar to your son in maths - it’s not like we can stop him learning stuff! It does mean that there’s a huge gap between what they’re teaching at school and what he can do. Kid knew his times tables before he was 3 and worked out 9 factorial in his head the other day.

Things that have helped:
Nrich is a good site - and free.
Books about space, weather and human body all bring in mathematical concepts - lots of measurement/probability.

More importantly - much more importantly in our case - he needs help developing social skills, patience, emotional resilience.

My advice would be to treat it as a hobby or interest. Encourage it, buy the maths based games etc and nice books (we love School of Numbers), but don’t go down the route of demanding the school teach them KS2 or KS3 maths now.
My son was hyper focused on maths for a long time, but his interests and skills have naturally become broader as he gets older.

@orinocosfavoritecake, good to find a fellow parent in similar situation. Will have a look at the website you mention. As for books, we do have a couple of kids encyclopedia of broader subjects, but probably gonna take your advice and focus more on science related subjects.

Thankfully on our case social skills are not a problem, and our DS is quite emotionally clever, though not very resilient, it's very easy to hurt his feelings. And he needs to work in dealing with failure and frustration.

Thanks for your time in writing your response, it surely helps to see some more parents in similar situations.

I could say my son is really similar he knows all his tables and beats me at fizz buzz. Although I will need to check his understanding of prime numbers etc

I’d concentrate on getting him to be able to “do it in paper” too. It’s no different than some of his classmates who will be gifted gymnasts, horse riders, artists, linguists. You wouldn’t expect them to be able to support those “gifts”. He will go to school to learn all sorts of things (many he may struggle with) but if you want to explore maths then you will need after school clubs/tutors. I would say maths for two reasonably numerate parents is less difficult than some other areas. We opted for a super selective grammar in the hopes of challenging our child and finding peers. In hindsight I wouldn’t do that as it didn’t really help and the added travel time limited what we could do after school.
Celebrate what he is good at and provide extra support for the things he struggles with and careful guidance on how to behave when you are academically gifted as reactions are not always positive and it’s a bit of a minefield to navigate relationships with friends, parents and teachers.

Usborne are fab for science books - take a look at the ‘100 things to know about…’ series.

yes, keymath3 can be done by school but they have to have the test kit, which costs a few hundred. Some schools will, some won't.

Regarding the statements made by senua above, you will find exactly these statements in the book I linked above, in "Chapter 1: Excuses for not developing mathematical talent".

I’d concentrate on getting him to be able to “do it on paper” too.
Aaargh. Flashbacks to DS and his Maths where he could jump straight to the answer. I've lost count of the number of times I said, "nobody cares about the answer, they want to see your methodology. SHOW YOUR WORKINGS!!"

And he needs to work in dealing with failure and frustration.
Go for Broke is a fun board game where the usual rules are inverted - whole point is to be a loser, not a winner.

I don't know how it would work, but I would ask if he could have a tutor work with him 1-to-1 whilst the class does maths.
I suspect with funding issues you'd have to pay for it yourself. As long as the tutor has a DBS, I think theyd be okay with it. In your shoes it is definitely something I would discuss with the school. Your year 1 child is certainly way ahead of mine in maths, in fact probably better than me!

A tutor will be able to assess gaps and help them move forward based on their own individual needs.

There are issues with gifted children becoming extremely bored, causing behavioural issues across all subjects. Since your child is without doubt highly gifted in maths, I would definitely explore with school what the options are during maths lessons.

I have a maths degree and my children are very able in maths, but your DS’s gift is something else! And it’s great that he’s not just able but also passionately interested in it.

Has he tried learning a musical instrument? As often maths and music ability come together, or at least complement each other.

@MotherOfDaughterss, thanks for your views. At face value I'm not entirely sure how that would work, but it is an option that I haven't thought about before, and maybe one for the future when school can no longer challenge him.

@WhatsWrongWithMyUsername, love your username. I now realized I forgot to write about music... My wife during her child and teen years had a complete musical education, she has a level 8 degree ( (?) apologies if this is not the correct naming for it, it's just not a matter I'm familiar with) on music theory. So DS is learning music theory with mum on Sundays followed by piano lessons for the last year or so. She says he is pretty good as well as he whizzed through first books. So we are already exploring that

You sound like really supportive parents. Mine’s a couple of years older - but I sometimes go through some easy questions in this book (we just skip the ones that need you to learn a whole different area like geometry):

Mathematical Challenge www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0521558751/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_8HN139YK7CHDF8VC9W7X?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Mine likes fact books like:
It Can't Be True!: Incredible Visual Comparisons www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1409334511/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_N1Z270WF8SB1WD7J2DN5?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Have fun and enjoy!

IME, it is nearly impossible to get kids fast tracked in mainstream UK schools. You'll get some push in primary up to about the Key Stage 3 curriculum. In secondary if they achieve in the A* boundary there is no further education and no incentive for schools to stretch them. There are the odd competitions and awards but those are add-ons.

I have two very gifted mathematician children. One is a hard worker. He is prepping to sit his Cambridge engineering entrance exam tomorrow and enjoy the challenge and success. He has been easy to parent.

The second boy is naturally off the charts smart, like your boy. In middle childhood he had anxiety and Tourettes. These days he loves rugby, xbox, and drinking cider in the woods with his mates. He manages his tics. He has a very unsettled relationship with his own intelligence. His marks are perfect A*, and he does literally nothing except attend school (and play rugby and go to parties). I am just so relieved he outgrew the anxiety I don't push him.

My unsolicited advice is just to support your child now if he is happy. You know more math than he does at the moment. Encourage the teacher to not make him attend the boring maths lessons and give him independent study. Let him be himself without making his intelligence a massive part of how you and he define himself. These super smart kids can be a challenge. Take in one day at a time.

I have a son similar to yours, reading, writing and crazy good at maths by age 4. I'm going to be honest here it quickly became apparent that school was not going to work for him. The school admitted they wouldn't be able to meet his needs.
Uk schools don't tend to 'fast track' children and provision for children exceeding targets is minimal. No fault of the schools of course the funding has been cut.
As a result I privately had hi, assessed but a education psychologist etc who gave a IQ level and other useful information. My son has always been home educated, and took his GCSE's at 11 which is fine as he's a private candidate. He's also been allowed to independently access university lectures and support given his academic abilities, something that is not facilitated with schools until later.
I am the least pushy parent ever, but having some idea of the level of his intellect was massively helpful and allowed me to pitch his education at the correct level.it also helped to open university doors and access to things like adult workshops even though he is just 13.

From my experience “extension work” in school is usually more time filling. I remember finally getting the school to agree to an on going project that could be used rather than their extension worksheets and a grateful dd saying rather tearfully “oh thank you mum I just can’t do anymore word searches” . The joy of a project is you can provide fodder and the school can take all the credit

Happy is the most important.

Both me and my wife were quite acomplished academically in Maths, both top of class, myself more naturally gifted, mom relying more on grit and work ethics

You may need to work on your biases there

I also love maths! I would focus on logic problems, problem solving etc. Theres a great YouTube channel called Mind Your Decisions which poses maths problems but you’d probably need to teach basic geometry and algebra although some are just pure logic.
Japanese puzzles like KenKen and Kakuro are good - sometimes requiring you to hold a few levels of logic in your head to work out the solution. The main thing is to have fun!