Y1 child very gifted at Maths

[ILJG]

Hi,

Writing here in the hopes of getting some guidance on how best to approach the situation of our son abilities in Maths. We live in the UK and DS just started on Y1 this term. He was born late June 2016, so on the youngest side of his class. Just to explain at what level his Maths are, after an half term on Y1 he can menthally do things like:

• add and subtract numbers up to at least 10,000;
• knows numbers up to the trillions;
• do complex multiplications, like calculate 15 to the power of 3 (15x15x15);
• does divisions and simple square roots;
• knows timetables up to 12, to the point that does 60s time attacks on doodle timetable with at least 15 answers, all correct;
• he understands the concept on infinity. Once I asked him what a number divided by infinite would be, and he not only gave me right answer, he also explained how he deducted it;
• his teacher recentelly taught him prime factorization, 2 days after that I asked him if he could determine the prime factors of 540, and it took him about 20sec on his way to school to do it menthally;
• and yeah, ha knows what a prime number is;
• the speed that he learns new Maths related things is staggering. He just understands the concept behind it, sometimes wiithout the need to give written examples. I taught him successfully negative numbers in about 10sec;
• and I could go on...

So, he has some serious brain horsepower when it comes to Maths. He loves all things that are logic based, and this was all mainly led by himself. He really enjoys Maths, likes to watch Maths related stuff on Youtube, loves all sorts of STEM toys too. On all other areas of learning he appears to be remarkably average. He is socially well adjusted, has plenty of friends and loves school.

In class his teacher is giving him some extra Maths work for DS to feel challenged, which is a good thing. However, it appears to be without any "structure" to it, just some random Y4, Y5 or Y6 subjects that teacher thinks will keep DS busy. Teacher must also not be too sure on how much DS knows, and since his "home learning" so far did not follow any formal structure, DS definitely has some basic knowledge gaps. For example, he can add numbers up 10,000 mentally, but he doesn't know how to do it in a piece of paper.

Both me and my wife were quite acomplished academically in Maths, both top of class, myself more naturally gifted, mom relying more on grit and work ethics. We both have Masters degrees in a related area. We came to the UK less then a decade ago and DS is our first child. He always realized he was quite able, after all we did teach him a few things when he asks about them, but only in lockdown during reception did we realized how far advanced he was in relation to his peers. At the time we sought advice from school on if we should stimulate this further or not, and they just said to continue to do the same. And so we have been doing, at his own pace. But being perfectly honest, it is becoming very disconcerting to see a 5 year old doing maths often quicker than his very accomplished mom, and with a speed not far from my own.

The main driver for this post is that both me and my wife had no contact with UK school system until now, so we are a bit unsure on the best way forward. The teacher his willing to give him extra work, however we feel it may be good to try to baseline his current level of knowledge to assist in developing a more structured learning plan. I read online we can get him tested by an education psichologist, but what sort of result will we get from it? Surely it will measure his ability, IQ, but will it identify learning gaps on specific maths topics? Also, how should the school assist? They have an appointed SENco, however online I find mixed answers on if this person is the best route for getting the necessary support for a gifted child? There are also council educational psichologists, shall we give it a go at that? We just had our parents evening and teacher mentioned Potential Plus UK as well. Pretty hefty fees in their assessments though, but we may be willing if its worth it, did anyone used their services that can offer some insight? And apart from the obvious short term benefits of getting the assessment report, on a longer term is there any benefit in having this certificate for ingress in schools in the future, etc? What about thoughts on joining Mensa? Any other advice on how best to take advantage of DS amazing ability?

Thanks a lot in advance

That's rubbish. Ucas statistics show UK universities take thousands of minors every year. That includes top universities like Cambridge which takes about 70 under 18's every year. The reason they're not more noticeable is most of them are from overseas and therefore seen as overseas students

A large proportion of those are the 17 year olds from Scotland who start university after taking their Highers. They're old enough to get their hands on fake id so they can have a normal student experience.

@extrastrongmints, thanks once again for the very informative post. Lots of options there that had no clue.

@CottonSock, thanks for the kind if words. Hia teacher today taught him division of square root numbers. He was so happy telling us about it eh eh

@purplesequins, appreciate your views and fully agree that it is an integral part of maths practice. We are focusing on that, currently WIP

@Birdkin, what an amazing resource those are. Will definitely have a go at those.

@hedgehogger1, already joined after recommendation on this thread.

15:02senua

Why can't you understand that a highly gifted student is about much more than the school system? They have a need to learn. The syllabus should serve the child, not the other way around.

I think you're confusing support for a gifted student (which will help them in the rest of the their life now and onwards) and making a gifted student jump through hoops because they can, like a performing monkey. That is not what the op wants to do. But she cannot choose to have a child who is not gifted and there are significant challenges to trying to ignore this. You don't seem to have any appreciation of this. Running out of syllabus is the least of her worries! There is always more to teach and the options are notb confined to school or uni.

I'm sure there is a very sad documentary episode behind your view but as an approach to teaching gifted students, this perspective is limited.

@senua, I fully agree with @tillysfad post. Obviously we are just at the start of a long journey, but the way I see it, DS attraction for maths is like a big train that we can only help steer towards the right destinations. Ultimately, we only want him to be happy, and have no doubt in my mind that happiness for him will involve lots of maths and logic. And if he ever states otherwise, well, we stop whatever we will be doing at the time and we will find something else

@tillisfad, I'm a he

Ultimately, we only want him to be happy, and have no doubt in my mind that happiness for him will involve lots of maths and logic. And if he ever states otherwise, well, we stop whatever we will be doing at the time and we will find something else.
OK. Just remember that you are the parent here. It's not your job to bow at the altar of his giftedness. It's your job to try to raise a happy, healthy human being.

What do you expect the school to do. Obviously he will get the highest grade at gcse then he can do a level after that. What's the point in trying to rush it ? It has no benefit

OP, firstly kudos to your lad. I taught my second child subtraction one morning at just turned 3 and later realised this was unusual. He got an A * at A level and is now a junior doctor, but your lads abilities are way beyond that.
As a teacher, in the state system, we have ( very occasionally) accelerated children with exceptional maths abilities ( I cannot ever recall it ever being any other exceptional ability)
In our school this might look like : GCSE maths at y9, then A level maths/ further maths in y10/11 and then working with the local university for mixed provision in y12/13. It is really really rare, but your dc would easily fit that profile.
You will,I am sorry to say, need to potentially be quite assertive with the school to be certain he continues be suitably challenged.

@Skyla2005, I don't think I mentioned I was considering rushing him, but if it needs to happen and he is ready, don't see why not. This post is me after guidance on how best to manage the situation, that's all.

I wrote on a previous response that I'm also pretty smart, especially at Maths. I barely studied during my first 12 years of education, simply being in class and doing homework was more than enough for me. But ultimatelly, during my Masters, that came at a cost as I simply did not know how to go about studying, which led me to fail a couple of years. On the other hand, his Mom, who arguably has less raw brain power then me, on the same exact class as me performed a lot better because she had established methods os studies, and knew what it took. I didnt.

I obviously don't have a crystal ball, but my sons ability appears to be a few steps ahead in relation to where I was with his age and in my mind it puts him at an even bigger risk of going down a similar path as me. And the way the avoid it is to ensure that he gets challenged over his school years. That's the benefit

@JaffavsCookie, thanks for those insights. Thought GCSEs could only be done at end of Y11, to get them done earlier only if home schooled?

Oh yes, you're a dad. I did know that!

So, first thing, make sure he has a childhood. Expose him to fun and games and silliness and joy. Make sure he knows has to make friends and be a good guy and all that stuff. Do not let his talent ruin his humanity. And enjoy him as a kid and have a fun time as a family.

But if he is that good, and I understand what you are saying, get him to do the UK Maths challenge competitions. First off he will love it. Second, if he is that good he will then he identified by the UK Maths Trust people, and his Maths career will flow. Olympiad places, an offer from Trinity College, Cambridge…basically what I am saying is relax, because if he is good he will shine and he will be found. The UK is great at managing maths talent.

A large proportion of those are the 17 year olds from Scotland who start university after taking their Highers. They're old enough to get their hands on fake id so they can have a normal student experience.

the Ucas statistics excluded the majority of Scottish students (but included a minority). If you added in all the Scottish students, the count of under-18s would be even higher, but the Scottish students would still be a minority. The majority of under-18 students in UK universities originate from outside the UK.
Regarding the age distribution within under 18s, Ucas dosesn't give a breakdown, but the Guardian published some stats a while ago that said 71% were 17 on entry, thus 29% were 16 or younger.

@ILJG no GCSEs can be done at any age. In general most students sit them all at the end of y11, but quite a few academy chains try to game the system and have kids sitting different ones in y10 and even sometimes y11, rarely with the kids best interests at heart. But acceleration for an exceptional child, no worries, ie if they are a bang on 9 by year 9 then fine.

Lots of good comments so will not repeat.
I do think having a full Ed Psych assessment is worth the cost.

It might also discover why he has trouble transcribing his mental math into writing. I have to admit, that made me wonder perhaps dyslexia? Dyslexics often have trouble taking what is clear in their head and then converting it into written material...whether that is a maths problem or an essay.

My DB is very talented mathematician, was off winning national contests at age 7, is degrees from top university etc. But he also has dyslexia. Dyslexia is associated with a higher than average IQ (many people wrongly think a learning disability means less intelligent).

So, if there is any reason for the difficulty writing things down, you’d find out and then get tailored advice from the Psych Ed on how to develop that skill.

Does it have his name in the feedback, you might want to redact it if so

@LIZS, well, too late now, dont think I can change it now

[quote ILJG]@LIZS, well, too late now, dont think I can change it now[/quote]
Report the post and ask mnhq to remove pic

He may be too young yet, but take a look at this, my son does it and it’s very good.

www.talent-ed.uk/maths-masterclass-tutorials

I used to work with MAT learners in primaries. He is extraordinarily and clearly he needs to be challenged in school as otherwise he will quickly get fed up with school. You need an assessment to ensure that all his skills and weaknesses are identified. The MAT children are always having some skills usually emotional that bring their confidence down. Regarding, mathematics, he needs a proper assessment identifying his skills and things that he needs to improve. Remember that maths in Primary has two aspects reasoning and numeracy. Until, you know the skills that he needs to develop, he might struggle to progress further with his maths skills.

@senua Looking at the possibilities of this 5 year old child (I saw the photos before they were removed). He will finish the secondary curriculum in maths by the end of Primary. Such talents are rare and what you suggest will make him discouraged.

Reposting with redacted photos.

We finally got some proper feedback from his teacher of the sort of diferentiated work DS is getting! He thinks DS is not yet being challenged enough, but getting there

Haven’t read the full thread so sorry if repeating.
My DS was similarly gifted in maths in year 1. The infant school he went to didn’t really know what to do with him so they gave him stuff off NRich to keep him busy. In year 2 they did the SATS and he didn’t drop a mark. So they gave him an old year six one just for fun and he didn’t drop a mark on that either!
His junior school had a really good maths lead and so ds got sent to various enrichment courses for g&t kids. He also took part in the UKMT competitions.
He is now in year 10 and just got 100 percent in his most recent maths test. However, it is much less obvious now and the gap has closed with peers. Also, he doesn’t want to do
Maths a-level as he wants to be an actor!
One thing that we did explore on the advice of others was musical instruments. He does play two instruments well and learnt to read music quickly.
No EP has ever shown the slightest bit of interest. All the best input has been from genuinely interested maths teachers.

Apologies, the system doesn't allow to post more photos today. Only tomorrow

If I had a child as gifted as you yours I would look at local private schools who specialise in maths and contact them asking for a bursary. Probably the reason you never learned to study is you weren’t stretched. I don’t think state schools will stretch him enough and he may end up the same as you.