Challenges of having a G&T child.

[Iwasjustabouttosaythat]

How has it been for you? DS is only 4 but already I’m feeling like I have to be apologetic all the time or play down his abilities. Some other parents are genuinely curious but most either assume I’m exaggerating or assume I’ve been crazily hot-housing him. I’ve found this with kindergarten teachers too. Since I moved him to Montessori it’s been fantastic, but I’m worried about him starting primary school. I don’t want to go back to being looked at like I’m the crazy mum who won’t “just let him be a child”. It’s as though I wouldn’t love for him to run around and go down the slide again and again and again instead of trying to read books to uninterested kids at the park. Actually no, I love him just how he is and wouldn’t change him for the world, but I’m not solely responsible for those traits. How do other people deal with it?

*OH no. That isn't cute, that's rude and deliberately unfriendly. Sorry.
*

DS wasn’t being deliberately unfriendly. I do take offence at that. People with ASD just don’t see situations the same and cannot pick up on social cues.
It’s not adorable or cute as the OP suggested but neither is it deliberate.
Yes as a parent it is and has been my job to teach him how to behave in social situations and how to react to things, because his brain just isn’t wired to automatically pick these things up like a NT child. DD in the other hand can read people and situations very very well and is very sociable.
It’s often a case of sensory overload too and by shutting down from everything around them and concentrating on reading a book it’s thier way of calming down and dealing with the overwhelming feelings.

I was an executive recruiter for very senior positions. I learnt over the years there are four areas that make up every job:

Skills unique to the position
Education
Experience
Social Skills

The first three areas people can acquire or we could advise them about "You need to have experience running an engineering department for 5 years or more" "You have fabulous experience and people skills but need to go and get an MBA so we can offer you top tier postions"

One area that would immediately disqualify someone and which we can not give straightforward advice on is poor people skills.

The most dynamic candidates clearly were at the top of the tree academically, with skills and experience but what set them apart was excellent people skills.

Don't ever downplay social skills, tolerance, understanding, emotional maturity and a good sense of humor.

Once you get to a certain high flying level your peers are similar in ability but people skills (or lack thereof) set people apart.

A four year old gets some money to purchase something at a car boot sale, buys something HE likes with no regards to what his friends would want, and after that wants to engage with his new acquisition right away, even though he is currently in company of other children. Sounds like regular 4-year old behaviour, age appropriate (lack of) social skills.

Just because this child can read and is good at other things too, does not mean he somehow magically gains advanced social skills.

If the child were eight or so, I'd expect the child to know more 'etiquette' and be able to put aside own desires for the time being to engage with other children instead. But there is nothing wrong with a four year old still learning this.

Parents in dd1's class used to talk about reading levels etc but I used to pretend I couldn't remember what dd was on as she was so far ahead.

Dd is also a perfectionist and want to please me - this sounds good but the reality is every decision she makes I realised she was thinking what she wanted but then doing or saying what she felt I'd want her to. I'm sure School thought Dh and I were pushy parents and her yr 4 teacher certainly did. She gets quite anxious and he completely blamed Dh and I. When I tried to explain that it's her personality and she needs help to chill, which we were doing at home, he insisted we were putting too much pressure as no dc is naturally that bright. Then I pointed out that 3 generations in my family had either been to Oxford or Cambridge unis he said we had a family setting unfair expectations on dd. Anyway, this year she has a different teacher and is relaxed and happy so perhaps Dh and I aren't the cause!? However I couldn't discuss it with Mum friend's because it sounds ridiculously pretentious.

There are so many judgements that come with high achieving academic dc. Lots of expectations that she's advanced emotionally too but that's not the case.

At 4 dd would have happily taken a book to the park so no idea why posters think that's weird. Dd2&3 think reading is "work" or a punishment!

I do the 'he enjoys it' thing too, in response to people's comments about DS' abilities. It's kind of neat as not only does it deflect from talking about the level of his ability, it also counteracts the idea that he might be good at x because I have been pushing him. Saying he enjoys it implies that any effort/work involved comes from himself, from his enjoyment of it.

However I am a bit tired of doing this. It is a strategy that generally works in the face of what feels like subtle aggression and judgement. I'd much rather not be faced with this subtle aggression and judgement in the first place though.

It would be nice to be able to talk about DS without constantly having to be careful about what I say.

As it happens, DS is an uncomplicated child and generally very well behaved, and socially fairly adept (for his age). The compliments I like best are, like PP said, the ones about his kindness and consideration of other people's feelings and such. And sometimes these are genuine compliments that I have no problem graciously accepting and passing on to DS (and complimenting the complimenter about something in turn). But sometimes even these compliments feel confrontational in that they are posed in a manner that requires a response that either minimises my DS kindness/good behaviour, or exposes me to accusations of bragging.

I think the only thing you can do here is to avoid these kinds of people socially, and nurture the friendships with those people who you can just be relaxed with and, if the occasion should come up, discuss your child like anyone would, without constantly watching your words so as not to cause offence due to your child being able/gifted/kind/well behaved/...

Tbh asynchronous development is such a huge part of being gifted. I get really annoyed that people think a gifted child should have an all over high profile in all areas.
In general the kids developing in synchrony are much more likely to be bright, not gifted.

Just because this child can read and is good at other things too, does not mean he somehow magically gains advanced social skills.

No indeed, and I do think the rudeness of the pool is overstated, however I don't think the use of adorable is appropriate, rather that the child may not have developed enough theory of mind to understand why others wouldn't like it.

There is a related point here, are gifted children more likely to develop the theory of mind necessary to understand these social situations earlier than their non gifted peers, I suspect that they could, but equally if they spend more time in solitary or guided activities that they wouldn't.

As you said earlier brillotic the OP's problem is with other adults, but that still seems alien to me, no-one moans about homework 'cos the school doesn't really have it. And no-one ever asks about book bands or similar stuff, the kids know and talk, but the adults have never to me. I think possibly the reason why is that for the confident advantaged parents in the area, we're not at the school where anyone who was obsessed with competitive academic school kid performance would be.

asynchronous development is such a huge part of being gifted

I think that is a generalization that you cannot make, if you are gifted in certain areas obviously that would not have any carry over, but if your gift is simply processing speed/working memory/reasoning then that is going to carry over into most things, and because it's also generally correlated with aerobic fitness, there's a likelihood it would also provide many physical advantages.

Requiring asynchroniticity to be called gifted is unhelpful I think, although of course the whole idea of labelling is unhelpful, but I think trying to narrow what is a term so often used differently takes us even further away from being helpful.

Brie, is the OPs child ASD diagnosed?

Obviously those with ASD will struggle with social cues, but I'm not sure there's been anything here about that in the OPs post. If there has, I certainly would advise differently.

That said, the lack of empathy for a playmate and singular focus may indicate possible ASD. But that's for the OP to get investigated if they are at all concerned this may be the case.

In terms of emotional development it would be a rare thing for it to go in synchrony.

There is also something else I'd like to say about the original post. We all have to develop a thick skin as parents. If your child has special needs, you will have other parents judging you and your child. If your child has behaviour problems, trust me other parents will judge you. If your children's uniform is not ironed, same. If you put crisps in their packed lunch. If they over-do their homework, if they don't do their homework, are very good at sports, if they are crap at sports, if they are genius at music, you will be judged. Wait until you get to year 6 and applying for schools - grammar? Private? State comprehensive? Other parents will judge you even more.

I was a G&T child. It was a very isolating experience. Not only were other kids not interested in me, I was also not interested in them. My parents had to force me to put down my books and go out to play, and I was encouraged not to mention achievements because it just leads to jealousy and bullying. What would have helped me the most was to have friends (even just one friend) who was on the same intellectual level and had the same interests. It's probably easier for G&T parents to connect with other G&T parents nowadays - back then you were restricted to whoever happened to live in your street, and I had nothing in common with those kids. It severely hampered my social development and imo has had lifelong effects.

I know what its like not to be able to talk to anyone about your child OP.
Your son sounds lovely and quite normal for his age, ito social skills.
As he gets older you can support him gaining social skills by taking him to activities and groups where he'll meet like minded people.
School have found Their narrator for school plays.
I really wouldn't worry at this age, or indeed too much at Primary.
I stand by what I say about secondary though, do your homework for the best possible outcome for him.

Er yeah, I had a gifted and talented child . DD1 was identified early in primary school. Meant fuck all tbh. No one else knew , we never talked about it really. I don't get the fuss about it really .

Plus I don't think it's weird to take a book to the park either! He sounds great.

Mine used to sing to everyone, but would play with other kids,
Playground, classroom, park, at home, round the supermarket.
The amount of little old ladies who stopped her and told her she should be on BGT
It wasn't usually quiet neither, her friends at Primary were nice though, never any bullying or making her feel odd.
At least a book is quiet.

Thanks for all the kind words. Loosley, you do get it! It’s a similar story here. It’s nice to see some other parents who get it too. It’s that common theme of just going along, acting like you don’t even notice it in case it makes other people feel bad. So we all just stay quiet. That’s what this thread is supposed to be for.

Even on this thread people make such outlandish assumptions based on so little information. It’s assumed my DS is totally non-functioning socially, that I never let him leave the house without a book which he never looks up from, that I look down on all physical activity, that I go around smugly telling everyone who will listen that my child is superior to theirs and that all I care about is his book smarts. It’s all complete nonsense of course but these are the kind of judgements I’m talking about. It would be nice to have a place free from that but I see it’s not to be MN. Still, I do enjoy hearing about the various challenges people have gone through with their children and how they handled it, especially if they didn’t feel they could turn to other parents for advice, so thank you for contributing.

I’m glad to hear it will all calm down soon and I will be going down the route of talking about other people’s kids more. If they ask how he’s doing with reading/science/maths I’ll say, “he enjoys it” and change the subject.

We’re lucky that we are right near an amazing secondary school so it was only primary that was a concern. I want to instill in him curiosity and a love for learning, and I think a horrible primary school experience can really work this out of a person before secondary.

Yes, this is absolutely the time for him to work on his social skills, and we’re doing that constantly and he’s coming on in leaps and bounds. I really hope he can find a kindred spirit once he starts school but we’re doing everything we can to make sure he will be able to get along with his peers, who by then will be more talkative and more easy for him to relate to. As I said, he’s fine with older children and adults, takes amazing care of his little sisters, it’s just his peer group, but I think 3 and 4 can be a tricky age for all involved.

gilly, I’d like to say the singing sounds adorable but I’m worried I’ll get yelled at.

I have three G&T, two are 2E (one ADD/aspergers traits, one cerebral palsy). My most disabled child is the most gifted on testing (tested about 12-15 at 5 iq 142) and taught herself to read before she could talk. No I don’t know how. She couldn’t talk. And we didn’t teach her. ‘Least’ gifted kid (think 135 but can’t hinestly remember) has the spikiest profile But is a bona fide maths genius. He worked out number bonds and then addition and multiplication by his third birthday. No I don’t know how. We didn’t teach him.
Smart girl also has an anxiety disorder OCD which kicked in at 14. Mathsy boy has been through all manner of social awkwardness/ anxiety and still bed wets at 16. He also does no homework at all and only has a year left before uni, and will probably only get a mediocre place as he really doesn’t see the point of education. If he goes. He might not.
Least gifted went to uni last year at 17 and is the only one not 2e. They got cleverer and more complex. Good job I stopped at 3 lol.
Anyway - all three will still lose themselves in books given half a chance, although weirdo ds used to reread the same ones over and over and over. School just got them to access whatever year’s shelves. It gets easier past y2 because no one really cares what they are reading. Dd2 used to take educational theory books in (largely homeschooling/ unschooling stuff).
Other parents? Occasionally they came up and asked me in hushed tones if it was true that the kid drooling in the wheelchair was really the mythical unicorn child at level whatever. I mostly just laughed and said ‘hey she does her own thing’. Sometimes parents of other gifted kids who were a bit snippy would want to compare, but I don’t really get it. Each kid does their own thing. I had no real input into my children’s ability, so it wasn’t really anything I could engage about in a swapping tips level. They are who they are.
At various times they have each accessed whatever school decided they should - from a counsellor in y3 for dd2 because they were concerned she was spending playtimes alone (she didn’t mind. She found her peers had completely different interests. She quite liked spending time with the counsellor though as she digs adult company ), to other year level classes. This worked well in the early years but is terrible later. Ds1 started nursery early as we were in tight straits - disabled newborn and no family support - and they were boggled by his bizarre maths tricks, so they ran him with the yr r class.
In all honesty, most of the things that seem uber important at 2,3,4 or even 7 fade into insignificance by 14+. I love my children dearly but it isn’t the gifted stuff that has been the priority. Ds1’s social anxiety, sensory issues and encopresis/ bedwetting have always been a far greater problem than being gifted. And dd2’s cerebral palsy has been an interesting counterpoint to being on the 99.whateverth centile.
As a military family, we moved every year or two. We had no say which schools the kids went to, so there was no angst about choosing schools. We got on and did it. Life is as complicated as you make it. We’ve had ups and downs. But whatever will be will be and all that.
I’m always a bit bemused by the parents that assume I hothouse. It couldn’t be further from the truth. They just have the sort of brain that picks up... stuff. Easily. And figures things out. Only one of them works for it. The other two really don’t. They have never learned spelling lists, or had to struggle for anything. They just take the test and trounce it. It’s not great. It teaches them nothing about dealing with challenges and doesn’t prepare them for study or give them any study skills. It is what it is.

It’s that common theme of just going along, acting like you don’t even notice it in case it makes other people feel bad. So we all just stay quiet.

The thing is, on one level, I get this. My dd is nearly 13 now, and I'm well practised at minimising her abilities and shutting down "those" conversations. Thankfully, they happen much less now she is older, although people do still make comments. As she has got older, dd has learnt to respond to these comments herself by saying "I just really enjoy it".

What I don't really understand is why it's such a hardship for people not to be able to talk about this stuff. I have never felt the need to talk about it, except to my DH or my mum. It's wonderful that dd is so gifted, and I marvel at what she can do, but I don't feel the need to shout about it or talk to parents of other children like her. I also don't consider her intelligence to be a particular challenge - it's just an amazing gift that she has a duty to use well.

Mamaryllis
what you have said is spot on. It is just one part of them as a person. Too many become defined by it, which doesn't make a rounded, successful, happy person. You sound lovely and full of sense.

I guess it has to do with not feeling terribly secure about things, that makes me wish I could discuss with other parents who'd understand and perhaps be able to contribute relevant thoughts, rather than judge.

E.g. DP and I grew up abroad and have no knowledge of how the educational system here really works. We inform ourselves about schools etc as best we can, but the level of just chatting to other parents about the various schools and what their advantages/disadvantages are (particularly for 'able' kids), or about how well current school/teacher is working for the individual child, is missing.

I think I have it figured out, then along comes the mum of DS' class mate and says 'Oh don't worry about secondary school for him, he's super bright he'll surely get a scholarship to a top selective private school' and 1) I have to respond to that, justifying why I am concerned about secondary school despite having a 'super bright' kid, without sounding like I'm bragging, and
2) I start to wonder if DS is perhaps indeed scholarship material - I know he's able but don't think gifted, but how to find out if it may be worth even looking at private schools, when I cannot talk to people, who might know more about how things work, about his abilities? and
3) I start second-guessing myself with regards to am I doing the best I can for DS, does he really need to go to a highly selective school, should I be pushing him (to open up such opportunities), rather than just be glad he's currently happy and well-adjusted.

But the only person I can discuss this with is DP who knows even less than me (due to not wasting hours of his time on MN).

Another thing is that we really try to focus on effort and the whole 'learning from mistakes' thing, but school and other parents keep heaping him with praise for achievements that he put no effort into. I wish I could ask them not to! Wish I could explain that we've seen worrying signs of emerging perfectionism and want to avoid his whole identity being built around 'being best' and that he already has a tendency to avoid anything that doesn't immediately come easily to him, and we are therefore worried and seek ways to counteract that. But this is simply not a discussion to be had with other parents.

Not always, but sometimes being 'more able' comes with particular challenges, and it is these challenges I seek to discuss, not the 'abilities' per se. Because I do not always feel secure enough in myself to simply say 'this is what we do' I seek the social exchange with other people to inform and refine my own opinions. This is hard when your child is 'top of the class' type of more able, it must be even harder when your child is a true outlier/gifted.

Brilliotic says it all again!

For me it’s basic advice. We’re not from here originally and we too aren’t sure how everything works. My actual friends here have decided not to have children or couldn’t for various reasons so I meet up with other mums, go to playgroups etc, but they don’t know me well enough to know I’m not being competetive.

In selecting a primary school I wanted somewhere that would keep him interested, but I can’t just say to people, “do you know if they can help my son?” without going into detail. Teachers just do the sales talk and I don’t know what really goes on, day to day. I think other parents are the best source for this.

Montessori has been an absolute godsend. They’re going to liaise with his future school on our behalf (as is standard practice there) so it’s not just me making outlandish claims as far as his future teachers can see.

The honest truth is that for my son I can’t talk about either end of my sons spectrum.
Even in year one they are looking at the fact that he will use a laptop through his schooling so that he can equal in opportunity in accessing the curriculum. The OT who met him at the end of reception recommended this.
At six with a beaker he will often wear more than he can drink.
He has lots of specialist equipment yet has hit his targets for the end of year before the year even starts.

As for secondary people don’t understand why we are looking at that now but as we are going at the mo he barely deals with all the noise and activity in class as is.
So, we have to look at schools with Sen units as we are not even sure if he deals too well with the sensory overload as it is so can’t imagine him dealing well with a mainstream secondary of 1000 plus children.

Brilliotic

I totally agree, and it is hard to feel secure in anything you do as a parent when your child is gifted and an outlier.
You can't just have a normal conversation with parents as it inevitably comes round to the life of the outlier.
It has completely taken over our family, I'm not saying the world revolves around it, but it's always there to be considered, at least for the next 6 years or so.
I'm always aware of down playing the compliments, at one time I'd tell her what was said, but once it becomes regular you'd be telling them all the time.
I'm also not so sure people telling them how gifted/talented and amazing they are, all the time is good, and it can bring many more problems, such as a blaze attitude to other things.
That's just part of it, I could go on for ever.