Nursery isn't pushing my son enough

[poco2015]

I am not sure what to do. My son is in full time nursery, he is 2 and a bit. He has begun blending and is reading cvc words and sounding out to help him. He is fantastic at numbers can count to 20 (and beyond when he feels like it) can understand the concept of taking away and adding (with objects). We have been doing doubling and halving at home which he can do but sometimes doubles when you say halve and halves when you say double, but we have been doing this for only a week so he is still bound to make mistakes. At the moment when the preschoolers do phonics and maths time DS goes in with them, I keep asking for them to help him with his fine motor but they say they are, but we are not seeing much improvement and what they are doing seems to be very basic. wwyd as i don't want to come across as too much of a controlling mum. I already pushed to get him into the preschoolers room for the phonics and maths

MumTryingHerBest Yes I understand what you are saying.

My point is, there are children who enjoys those things, and just because we are doing something most people think it's not age appropriate, it may not be so horrible for the child.
I only know about my child, and he enjoyed numbers or letters, I never thought I was taking childhood away from him. And we also did things most people do with their children.
Sometimes the comment "let child be a child" from other parents sound too patronizing for me.
I don't always know what's best for my child, that's why I come to MN and ask for advice. And I just assumed it must be same for OP as well.

Agree Irvine
Some children really DO enjoy doing these academic type of work. Dc1 has always loved that sort of stuff because it was so easy for him so it was like a game rather than a chore.
Besides, you can do some counting and adding as a game too. hust like when you play I Spy.

What I don't agree is to evaluate how well your DC is doing only via some academic type of work. So your child is only far ahead if he can do X and y (all school type of stuff like adding and phonics etc).

Yes I know, WoodHeaven.

It's great dc is doing academically, but I know life is not all about being good at maths, English, science etc.
It's just a part of a child. Thing is, I am trying to raise my ds to be a rounded, happy child, not exam robot. That is why MN is a good place, that I can get great advice from other people who has more experience than me.
But sometimes, even on this G&T section, people give us hurtful
comments and treat us like we are horrible parents, and that makes me sad.

What I don't agree with either is this idea that some children are just average but it so happens that they are ahead when they are little but in the end it will all level out.
I remember the HT taking great delight in telling me that 'dc1 had reached a plateau as I would have expected because really he can't be that bright' and no one was even trying to see why there was a 'plateau'. (There wasn't btw)
That reminds me a lot of teachers thinking girls can't do maths and therefore by Y6, the average level in maths for girls is lower than boys.
A SELF FULLING PROFECY.

I'm France, children who are ahead like this are moved one year up (or 2, 3, 5 years of appropriate). I've never seen ANY children who have to go back to their own age group because actually they weren't clever enough (there are other issues with that system due the difference in maturity though).
I really suspect children who go back to be in line with their peers do do because that's what they are expected to do (as per the numerous e perform es shared in this thread too :(:()

WoodHeaven I'm France, children who are ahead like this are moved one year up (or 2, 3, 5 years of appropriate)

I know nothing about the French education system but I am quite surprised the French education system encourages children to be studying at degree level 2, 3, 4 or 5 years early.

If you want him to be able to write creatively and imaginatively when he is 7, then encourage him to do lots of imaginative play now.

If you want him to develop a broad and interesting vocabulary, then read to him, enjoy exciting and fun books together (read by you) with lots of pictures.

If you want him to have good general knowledge to broaden his understanding of the world, help him to have lots of things to write about, then give him lots of experiences - playing in the mud, swinging on a tree branch, cuddling a kitten.

If you want him to be a scientist then expose him to science - floating and sinking, plants, swings, mud, bubbles, playdough, paint, cooking etc.

If you want him to have good fine motor skills, then give him things to do which use his fingers - playdough, lego, colouring, handling small toys, rolling and baking biscuits, playing in the sand, threading beads.

If you want him to develop a good understanding of number then use number in everyday life - cooking, weighing, money, counting plates on table, teddies on the bed etc. and develop their broader understanding of maths - volume (water play) weights (cooking) time, larger than smaller than etc etc.

In other words if you want to develop your child's intelligence, then develop the whole child, not just phonics and numeracy. That is why the nursery has the curriculum it does

steppemum, well said. What I said was along similar lines though you said it much better. And mainly I was saying it a bit in contrast to everyone saying that as he is a child he should be left to play. We call it play, but it all those experiments with the world where they are learning so much.

Mum they would as long as they think the child has enough maturity to cope with it.
You regularly have programs about some children who are doing their Alevels at 14yo and then go to Uni. (And yes that would also be acceptable).
They certainly would have no issue at all to move a child one year ahead. I did that and also know a few others who were two years ahead (more unusual).

Agree with stepmum too with the added comment that reading should be at his level (so prob more complex than expected) etc.

The difficulty is that there is a point where you want to have a more academic approach to things (eg to teach them to read so they can do it themselves) because carrying on teaching them like this isn't that easy when the only experience you've ever had is one of a formal learning.

As I said before, my approach was following what they do in some homeschooling circles. But I had the learn how to do it first....

my brother was put 2 years ahead at secondary school. He was 14 in a class of 16 year olds, did O levels 2 years early, and then A levels.

It really did him no favours. Going out socially at 14 with 16/17 year olds isn't great, there is a huge difference in 2 years. Drinking and sex are happening in a class of 16 year olds, not so much at 14.

That is why in UK we don't usually accelerate kids into another year group.
But also, the way the curriculum is supposed to work is that each child works at their level, so it is perfectly possible to teach a child at their level within their age group. That is not necessarily the case in other school systems. I know, for example, that in the US the curriculum used to be much more inflexible and not allow for this (not sure what it is now)

I agree with Steppemum about the inappropriateness of putting teenagers of different ages into the same social group. Its a period of rapid change, one that many/ almost everyone struggles with at some point, even when allowed to grow without own age group. The problems must be multiplied when everyone around you is older.

Sadly, however, I don't think the practice matches the theory when it comes to "the way the curriculum is supposed to work is that each child works at their level". Both my DC are especially able in maths and both are finding that the school has just given up trying to provide challenge for them.

I've never really understood how moving children up a year works in the medium - long term.

It sounds great at first glance but surely it only solves the problem in the short term, whilst creating other social development problems? Even if you only think about how the work will be more challenging, which it would be, if the child is genuinely highly able, and not just hot-housed, then surely the child will simply come up to the new level and then have to slow down again to match the pace of the new class?

e.g. if each class is taught at the rate 30mph, but the more able child travels at 45, 60 or 90, then there will be some catching up to do at first, so they can use their full speed. However, then the able child will have the same problem that they did in the previous class because they'll go back to doing 30 mph when their brains are built to do 45, 60 or 90! Except now, there will be a enw problem viz they are the youngest in the class and some of the other children could be up to two years older.

You can't compare how it feels to be a year or two ahead here and in France for example.
In France, children can skip a year but they can also be held back s year (or two) so there is always a mix of ages in the same class.
I've had a class where one guy was two years ahead, I was 1.5 years ahead and then we had one person who was two years behind.
That was secondary too so right in the middle of teenagehood.
It has never been an issue because basically you are never expected to socialise only in your own year group. So people make friends and keep their friends where it suits them. Sometimes dome years ahead, sometimes behind (much more unusual as they always check the maturity of the child too).
That's why it's essential not to say as a sweeping statement 'It doesn't work'. It dies and can work in the right environment

IME children are born with brains hard wired for learning. I could never understand why others would not want to teach their children, but it is their choice, just as teaching my child has been mine. I have come across quite a few myths on mn:
A child should be learning to play and socialise. There is a lot of time in a day and the few minutes of teaching here and there leaves plenty of time for other things.
The child will be turned off learning. I find just the opposite. A child who sees themselves as having an ability wants to learn more.
The others will catch up. Did reads quickly and is doing A level maths at 12, so good luck with that one.
They will be bored at school. This is a fault with the school system, not the child or the parent.
They will run out of things to learn at school. I doubt dd will know all there is to know in maths by 18.
Intelligence is something they are born with and will not be altered by education. However education will improve their ability, whatever their level of intelligence.

It is just getting a good balance, so I would say to the OP to leave nursery time as a time for socialising, when your child learns to mix with others without any pressure of expectations from his parents.

We leave nursery as a time for socialising - it's only a few hours on a few days so there's plenty of time for learning around it. OP said her son was there full time. I think in that case I would be hoping for a bit more learning support in nursery in order to get that good balance.

Eyfs has various dimensions, including social ones but also including literacy and numeracy ones. Kids should be supported to make progress in all of those, not just stop when they can do the things in their own age band.

We sent my ds full time to nursery, because of social reasons. It was suggested by manager, that more time with lots of kids would help with ds.
(He was selective mute, only talked to adults at nursery.)

During nursery, the manager spent time doing things most nursery don't.
They borrowed books from attached school for books and read with him, and also done times tables and division etc. with him.
We new about books because he sometimes brought home books, but didn't know anything about maths. We didn't ask for it, just found out when we received all those books of his paintings etc. after graduation.

But most of time, he spent time getting wet, dirty, running around etc.
The nursery was lovely.

Justrichmal - I think I learned that IQ goes up and down depending on how much recent effort is put into it. A genius doesn't become thick from having a couple of years doing nothing, but they do find they learn less easily for a while.

When I left university, I could just fly through new things. I did some professional qualifications in economics a couple of years after leaving university and I found the easiest way to memorise all the silly formulae was to prove them from first principles. I couldn't do that now though. Now my brain feels like its suspended in treacle!

I must admit, I had missed that nursery was full time.

I'm all for extending and teaching even tiny ones. BUT what REAL concept of doubling and halving does your son have at two years old? This concept is beyond his comprehension other than to cut a cake in half and notice that the pieces look the same. He is not going to be ready, cognitively.
Double and halve THINGS. Not numbers.

And play
And read to him
And tickle him