Nursery isn't pushing my son enough

[poco2015]

I am not sure what to do. My son is in full time nursery, he is 2 and a bit. He has begun blending and is reading cvc words and sounding out to help him. He is fantastic at numbers can count to 20 (and beyond when he feels like it) can understand the concept of taking away and adding (with objects). We have been doing doubling and halving at home which he can do but sometimes doubles when you say halve and halves when you say double, but we have been doing this for only a week so he is still bound to make mistakes. At the moment when the preschoolers do phonics and maths time DS goes in with them, I keep asking for them to help him with his fine motor but they say they are, but we are not seeing much improvement and what they are doing seems to be very basic. wwyd as i don't want to come across as too much of a controlling mum. I already pushed to get him into the preschoolers room for the phonics and maths

Why would the nursery need to push him when you are obviously an extremely pushy mother. They probably feel sorry for the poor boy and feel he needs time to play and be TWO

only I don't think I've said that she should leave him alone. Actually I'm saying quite the opposite....

He is two.
He has his own abilities and his own struggles. As ANY child.
His abilities should be recognised and valued. He is a bright acadamic child. And? Why not letting him learn at his own pace regardless if it's much faster (or much slower) than all the others?
Why does it have to be her wanting to fulfil her own ambitions through her dc? Is it so impossible for that child to be that bright???

And this raises another question.

As a pp said, if a child has some difficulties at that age, let's say with fine motor skills, it would be seen as OK to 'make them do some work and exercises' so they work on what isn't working that well.So that their fine motor skills are improving.

But somehow, if a child is really bright (academically, music or whatever), then it's wrong to make them do 'some work and exercises' and we should be leaving them be children.

Why the difference?

Is it because been good at school (reading/writting/maths) just makes you a geek or a nerd and that IS JUST NOT GOOD?
Is it because been really good at school isn't something desirable? It certainly makes it look that way :(

Er, I think you signed yourself up as a paid up member of the pushy mum club when you persuaded them to let him do phonics with the pre schoolers. My DS3 is also 2 and a bit. Just let him play for heavens sake!!

He's 2 for fuck sack let him be a kid and don't ruin his life so young.

Oh god this is so sad.

Not that you would give your little one the chance to learn - but that you find it s problem that at 2 years old he isn't being "pushed"'

As someone up there said if he's gifted he's gifted. Pushing never changes that. Let him relax. Don't teach him success comes from constant scheivement. Please.

As someone up there said if he's gifted he's gifted. Pushing never changes that.

Do you think that top athletes arrive at that level just because they are gifted or because they have also worked pretty damm hard?
What about world renowed musicians? You know the ones where we know that they need to start learnig music from a very early age (that is 2 or 3yo) to be at that level and then work very hard. Is being gifted enough or do they also need to start working on their abilities at an age when 'they are just children'?

A gift is a gift but only if you work with it. Otherwise it just gets wasted, the same way that somehow with great ability is swimming will never get a world champion if they don't learn how to swim.

Of you want to work on fine motor skills at home try duplo, Lego, cutting paper using scissors, junk modelling - all of which allow for creativity. Do not waste time writing because he will be board shitless quickly enough with all the writing practice at school anyway.

Personally I wouldn't bother with reading till school. He will zoom through it all even faster when he's a bit older.

This is a really bad joke... right?

Wood. My DS started reading aged 4. He could have easily started aged 2 but I chose to do more age appropriate things instead. Now aged 13 he's top of his year group for science, English, History, Maths. His year 6 sats were mostly 6's. Starting earlier wouldn't have given better results.

I haven't read the full thread, but I think I can contribute from experience.

I would advise that you calm down about all of this, OP. If you have a search on some older threads, reading at 2 isn't common, and a child who learns to read (with understanding) at such an early age is very probably bright, but it's certainly not an infallible sign that a child is gifted or even exceptionally intelligent.

My DS was "caught" reading at nursery about 3 months before his 3rd birthday and closer observation revealed that he had indeed taught himself to read without anyone noticing. A few weeks later, again with no input / coaching, he was reading everything he could lay his hands on, such as cereal boxes and the Times. However, his fine motor skills were really nothing special - he struggled to hold a pen properly / write neatly for far longer than his less literate friends. Now he's 12, he is still very bright, but definitely not "gifted" in the true sense of the word.

We just left him be, as it really is not a good idea to try to hothouse a child out of having fun. You get what you get - if a child is ready to read and become numerate, they will do it off their own bat. Pushy, performance parenting can put children off learning for life. Just make sure that he has plenty of reading material and let him decide what he's interested in. If he's ready and interested, he'll get on with it himself.

A note for the future - It really is a bad idea to tell a child that he is very bright, or to discuss his intelligence in front of him, as it can make the child lazy/complacent. And it will irritate the hell out of other parents!

A note for the future - It really is a bad idea to tell a child that he is very bright, or to discuss his intelligence in front of him, as it can make the child lazy/complacent. And it will irritate the hell out of other parents!

This. Every single child I've ever taught who has been described as 'G&T" has been nothing more than averagely bright. They've also been mostly pains in the arse, having been told/pushed daily that they're exceptional. Parents are equally painful. Seriously. Calm the fuck down. He's 2. Please don't be one of those parents. Please don't let him become one of those kids. Let him play. Let him build dens. Let him explore. Let him question. Let him discover. But fgs, stop with the 'teaching' Let the teachers teach. Or my goodness, is he going to be bored at school.

Gosh wood.

Academic promise is a bit different from physical promise.

And I think you will find while some parents support their children into sport or music the ones who really excel while maintaining balance are the ones who are taught to ENJOY what they do as it's the passion keeps them going through especially the teen years with their distractions.

Pushing a two year old in anything is pretty counterproductive. Far better give them the chance and encourage them to enjoy it.

Yes yes yes to nut telling a child they're bright. There's a lot of research around how focusing on intelligence rather than hard work reduces risk taking ability and again is counter productive.

Good posts WoodHeaven. And wtf do people get this idea that they can only play OR learn? They're supposed to learn through play. And under eyfs they're supposed to do it at their own pace. If op's son was keen to learn phonics at 2 then good for her getting nursery to let him join in, I'm sure with that age group they'll be doing it in a fun and play based way. My little one was very keen on her phonics at that age too. Still is. It doesn't take any more time out of her playing for her to read a book to me than it does for me to read one to her, presumably people wouldn't frown on that? It doesn't take any more time to play a phonics game on the iPad than it does to watch a few minutes of cbeebies after lunch. We would offer both options by the way.

DD at 2 was with a childminder so could easily follow her own interests at her own level. In a nursery setting they have less time to do things 1:1 and a narrower range of resources within each room, so going in with a different class could well be the easiest way of letting a child learn.

Oh and the don't enable them so they aren't bored in school argument is crap. Ds wasn't into reading before school and was complaining about the slow pace of phonics teaching within the first half term. At least DD will be able to sit and read a book when she gets bored.

One thing my DS used to do at that age(2/3) which was good for both fine motor skills and literacy(?): Cut out letters from boxes and magazine and make a list of things he likes.(Names of cars, makes and models)

Do you think that top athletes arrive at that level just because they are gifted or because they have also worked pretty damm hard?

Do you think top athletes were pushed into hard physical training whether eye aged 2 or did they choose to use their talents when they were older?

The top athlete I know started training aged 19 YEARS.

There's an awful lot of science top set year 11 which are giving up triple science for double because "it's too hard" in their own words they have always found school easy. If children are valued for their brains and not their work ethic they don't build the store of resilience to try again once they fail.

My DD could also read when she was 2 however starting school she had to sit through all the phonics lessons just like everybody else. She had to start on the first level of books and make her way up slowly because the teacher only heard her read occasionally as the TA often did reading with her instead. But whilst she finds the academic side easy I'm often told how she isn't an independent learner she flitted from activity to activity in reception and a day dreamer in year 1.

By all means read with your child at home, go to the library or use the book people to get some reading scheme book and take turns reading books but leave nursery for playing with messy stuff and learning to socialise.

Princess, that's a real shame that your DD had to be bored at school. DS's state primary teacher realised almost instantly that she had a competent reader on her hands and leapfrogged him to an appropriate level.

As it happened, we moved both our DC to a selective school in the independent sector after DS's reception year (the impetus to do this was serious problems at the school which were affecting our other DC). His reception teacher did tell us on the quiet that as he went through the school, it was unlikely that the teachers of the older classes would have the flexibility to send him "off piste" in the same way. I don't know if that comment was specific to the school in question, or the demands of the curriculum once all of the class had got the reading and writing basics sorted.

Andy Murray - definitely pushed from 2. It varies. One thing for sure in extracurriculars, be it sport or music - kids are usually allowed and encouraged to work at their own level. In music I was never told I couldn't play such and such a piece because it wasn't in this year's syllabus, nor banned from taking a grade because I was too young. In swimming they move them up a level when they've finished the badge. In football the team is the best players, not the oldest ones.

If children are never challenged, that's when they don't build up a work ethic. It's very easy to turn a gifted child off school or let them become complacent, and it's not parents letting them access material at their own level that does it, it's schools NOT doing so. My DH was one of those kids who never learned to learn because everything he was given to do until uni was easy for him. A level physics - A for achievement, E for effort. He was even proud of it. I was also what would probably be called gifted these days, but I was challenged at every turn. So I knew about working and the joy of learning something difficult. Guess who was dragging who along at uni?

Keep him at home?

This is so sad and misguided. In your efforts to push him you are likely to deprive him of essential stages of development. Phonics at two! What about sharing picture books with no pressure but sheer enjoyment. Let him enjoy turning the pages, talking about what is happening, going back to familiar stories again and again. Nursery rhymes, songs, building with bricks or boxes, etc. Playing games and going out to the park, swings etc.
As for nursery, he should be enjoying the company of other children, learning to play alongside them, getting mucky, painting with fingers, brushes,playing water games, filling and emptying containers. Is he happy playing with the other children? You should be concerned only that he is a happy, socially developing child. For goodness sake relax and enjoy your little boy. His whole life is a fast learning track, don't narrow his experiences to abstract concepts at this stage. It's real experiences he needs. Make cakes with him. Let him hear the language involved - mix, more, spoonfuls, sugar, is that enough, smooth,etc.
Count spoonfuls, cut the butter into half, etc. Let him peep into the oven to see them rise. I could go on but please, please, ease up.

Agree with cat children become complacent when they are never facing doing something difficult. And they also never learn HOW to make some effort and how good it feels when you've worked hard and achieve something.
In some wAys, I'm less worried about dc2 who has had some pretty hard challenges (language issues) than with dc1 who finds everything easy
If you go through old threads, you will find lots of examples of very bright people who actually dropped out from school because they were never challenged, got bored and then decided to not bother with school.

As for athletes not starting to train until they are 19yo... That will be gymnasts whose career ends around 18yo, long distance swimmers who are all under 18yo.
Or do you remember that woman playing the violin (sorry can't remember her name)? She participated to a program about being g gifted and whether it was work or ability that allow her to be that good. Her answer was both. She would never have been that good wo playing everyday from the age if 3~4yo.

Some things will stay with someone forever it's lot of abilities need to be nurtured to fully develop.
That starts by giving opportunities to children's their own level.
Saying that if a child us right at two, they will always be bright so never need any input is wrong IMO. Being bright us not just being able to understand easily. That's also about curiosity and learning to solve problems. Stop putting a child in that situation, for example by telling him he should be learning the same than others, and you will stop these fantastic qualities from developing at best. At worst, you'll destroy them.

Having said that, I don't think that doing school type of work is right approach. The way homeschoolers do things probably fits better. But not providing the food for the brain of the child is wrong, if not unethical.

Btw, you dont need to say to a bright child they are bright.
Their school mates will do that for you.
(And the teachers who will not answer their questions because no one else would have been able to
Follow etc etc)
By the end of reception, if not Y1, dc2 knew even though I have never said such a thing to him.