Nursery isn't pushing my son enough

[poco2015]

I am not sure what to do. My son is in full time nursery, he is 2 and a bit. He has begun blending and is reading cvc words and sounding out to help him. He is fantastic at numbers can count to 20 (and beyond when he feels like it) can understand the concept of taking away and adding (with objects). We have been doing doubling and halving at home which he can do but sometimes doubles when you say halve and halves when you say double, but we have been doing this for only a week so he is still bound to make mistakes. At the moment when the preschoolers do phonics and maths time DS goes in with them, I keep asking for them to help him with his fine motor but they say they are, but we are not seeing much improvement and what they are doing seems to be very basic. wwyd as i don't want to come across as too much of a controlling mum. I already pushed to get him into the preschoolers room for the phonics and maths

I find it bizarre that some parents think if their DC are doing phonics, reading etc earlier than peers that they'll somehow be cleverer than anyone else. It can put so many children off learning if they are pressured like this. We already start them to young at 4 doing all this but 2? This has made me sad. I think children should be playing and climbing trees etc until 7 , then formal learning once all these motor skills are developed. You'd be amazed at what children are learning every day through play. Why the obsession of where they are compared to others of their age in this country. My Dd walked at 9 months , my DS didn't walk until nearly 2, but they can both walk just the same as each other. Let him be , if he's bright he'll be bright regardless of whether he starts reading at 3,4,5, or 6. Let him be a 2 year old , he really shouldn't be sitting doing phonics , children need to be moving all day , one of the many reasons why our classrooms have so many children who can't sit still is because they are sat down to formal work far too young. That's my opinion anyway.

Happy why should a parent only be concerned about the social side?
Is there really no other side a child should develop in their personality other than that?

If he is bright - you just let him get interested in what he's interested in. You don't need to do phonics early. It's the love of learning, finding out new things, exploring that spurs them on.

Whilst they might seem further ahead if they can read/write earlier. There comes a point where they can all read/write and what's important is that imagination, ability to think things through, find out new things. Which comes from play - imaginative games, building things, solving puzzles.

I maybe flamed for saying this, but I don't think people would understand
that there are children who actually enjoys learning academic stuff from early age, unless you have one.

I read all the time, and it was quite natural for my son to want to read, since there are lots of books around and seeing mum buried in books all the time.
We went to library often and he stood in front of posters on the wall. So I bought them, just hanged them up on the wall, never asked him to study it or anything, but I often found him standing in front of it for ages. Before even starting school, he knew all the times tables or names of the planets because of that. I didn't think I was pushy parents at all.

Just to be clear - is your son 2 (as in born in 2013) or 2 as in year 2?

Either way, he sounds very able, but if he is the 2013 variety, then he's little more than a baby. Teaching him for fun is fine, but anything more than that is... well unhinged, basically! I wouldn't even be worrying about those fine motor skills at that age.

Mine would have probably enjoyed learning academic stuff from an early age HOWEVER I wanted to ensure they had a full childhood without the constraints of formalised education. We went down the creative, problem solving play route which is less ridged and prescriptive.

I agree, that formalised education for 2 year old is wrong. So, about OP asking school to make him do phonics with older children and take away the time to play with other children, I do agree that's too pushy.

I keep asking for them to help him with his fine motor but they say they are, but we are not seeing much improvement

Well unless you want them to do brain surgery to somehow speed up his neuromuscular development they can't do much.

Would you like them to make him taller too?

He is 2, he may be bright but he is physically still 2.

I think you're right irvine, people really don't get it. If a child has a delight in learning, let them learn, at whatever age they want to do it. Phonics, formal education? Rigid and prescriptive? Constraint on play? Missing out on a full childhood? Not in our house. DD does 3 years old at full tilt. And she loves reading. No problem.

OP, it's all been said. I'll just add this: I was reading by 3 and by the time I started school I was so far ahead of the other kids that I spent most of the time sitting working by myself at the side of the class. Those were the glory years . I peaked at 5 and then the other kids caught up with me and I've never been considered a genius since

My dd was so good at numbers at pre-school that they told me she was likely going to be G&T. You know what it was? She was obsessed with Numberjacks, used to walk round with a calculator and became totally immersed in it. She is now (Y5) distinctly average at maths - in the middle set of 5.

What's the point? Simply that at this young age, if you can get them really engaged with anything they will amaze you. Their brains are fantastic and their learning really fast. Enjoy it, go with it, but let your child lead you. You can't know if he is going to be G&T at this age, and you need to give him loads of opportunity to develop all his skills and to develop his own interests.

I remember funny conversation with nursery teacher, after she found out that my ds can read. She asked me if I read to him a lot, and I said I don't read to him at all, because one night, he decided to read to himself rather than listen to me read to him.

Leaning something like numbers and letters are nothing different from learning to kick balls or making junk models or running around in the garden or jumping into the puddles to some children. My ds did all that too.

It honestly doesn't matter what they may or may not do later. DD had a joy in phonics last year, she gets so much happiness from being able to read now. As long as she continues to be challenged and enjoy learning who cares if she's no longer ahead in 5 years time?
Statistically speaking, gifted children tend to do things earlier, and children who do things earlier are more likely to be gifted fwiw. To be honest the strongest indicator that DC are likely to be gifted long term is probably still the fact that dh and I were/are. But that's another thing that's a bit taboo, right?

My just three year old can count backwards from 10 and write his name. I am pushing for him to take his gcse's but it's falling on deaf ears at the moment.

Learning isn't a race. By the time he's 10, 20, 30 or 40 nobody will care that he could halve numbers when he was 2. They'll care if he's a nice, kind, funny, interesting person. He's tiny, his personality is still forming, the whole world is still a wonder to him. Please don't crush that. He can learn phonics when he's older; he can't go back and re-live the awe and discovery in his toddler years.

And if an enthusiasm for phonics is a part of their nice, kind, funny, enquiring, discovering selves mackerel? If they are thrilled about discovering letters and sounds? What? We should say sorry DC this isn't for you, put that book down and go and play with your dolls house? I couldn't shut down a child that way. You answer their questions, just like with any other area of learning. They want to know about dinosaurs, you going to refuse to take them to the museum because they can just as well do that when they're school age?

Fozzleyplum Tue 17-Nov-15 07:51:07: If children are valued for their brains and not their work ethic they don't build the store of resilience to try again once they fail.

100%
I am the product of various gifted and talented programmes. I would not describe any of them as having had life enhancing effects.

On another point:

My daughter is currently going through the 11+ , up against the two and three tutor crowd whose parents also worried they started phonics/numeracy 'late' with their children. It feels like she was a 2 year old yesterday.

OP - be careful about what path you take with your DC on this. By all means support them in their endeavours; but it is so easy to wake up one day and find yourself, and them, in a really bad place with your focus entirely on what you AREN'T doing, WHO is doing it, and what else your child SHOULD be doing. It's been extremely unpleasant to be caught up in all this and I am not at all convinced that the LIFE OUTCOMES for these children will be any different, we all will have just been more stressed along the way.

I will say that a child I know that seemed 'behind' at 2 is now (probably) headed for Eton - and this no joke.

It's all very well to encourage a child with anything they're interested in, but they also need some broader experience too. Nursery will provide a whole range of experiences that will enhance all areas of learning. They should be following each child's interest, while also showing them what else is out there. DD knew all her sounds and numbers before starting school, but she went to pre school to get more experience with her peer group, taking turns, sitting quietly during the register, performing in plays, etc. She has done well at school and her primary school and secondary school identified her as gifted without me telling them.

catkind But OP wasn't asking about helping him to discover the things he is curious about, she is trying to push him in a structured way. That's totally different IMO.

Pushing them to play with a dolls house in a structured way with specific outcomes would be just as bad!

And if the dolls house was in a different room in the nursery, and that was what they were wanting to play with, would you not be asking for them to have access to it? Any phonics they do in nursery will be fun and informal anyway. As OP says, songs and actions. Why shouldn't a 2 yr old do that if they enjoy it (as OP also says he does)?

You really sound like a great mum, catkind.
If you explain it like that, nobody can argue it's wrong thing to do. Yes, if the child has shown interest and having fun, there is nothing wrong with doing fun phonic learning at age of 2. And if there are people who still think it's wrong.... I just assume they would never understand.

Couldn't help joining in here with my tuppence as my dd is two. Nearly all her play is learning anyway. Small children love to learn, but to reduce learning to maths and reading is such a reductionist idea of what learning is. Sure we all end up teaching them something about letters and numbers, it's another fun thing to learn, but has your child a good vocabulary? Can he name the different types of trees and flowers? Can he balance while walking along a ledge? Does he have a good sense of rythme? Can he identify his emotions? Etc. etc. etc.

"but to reduce learning to maths and reading is such a reductionist idea of what learning is."

This is what I can't really understand. why do people think the parents who teach numbers or letters etc. aren't doing things you mention anyway, and also giving a child chance to learn something because they want to?

"This is what I can't really understand. why do people think the parents who teach numbers or letters etc. aren't doing things you mention anyway"

Well when the OP is complaining that the nursery is not pushing her son enough in phonetics and numeracy, it is the impression being given, is it not?

Also I've been knocking around the world for over 60 years and seen a lot of competitive parenting in my time.

But she never said she is only teaching her dc phonics and numeracy either...

irvine101 But she never said she is only teaching her dc phonics and numeracy either...

OP never said that their DC was asking for any of the things OP is pushing for either though.

It is all very well to say it is not fair to deprive a child of the opportunity for academic advancement if that is what the child wants. However, there is nothing in the first post that would suggest that what the child has learned to date was in any way influenced by the child's strong desire to do so. It is quite possible that the academic progress the child is making is a result of their willingness to please the parents etc.

At the moment when the preschoolers do phonics and maths time DS goes in with them, I keep asking for them to help him with his fine motor but they say they are, but we are not seeing much improvement...

It is quite likely that the time spent with the preschoolers doing phonics and maths is taking away some of the time that would normally be spend doing activities that would help improve fine motor skills.