Nursery isn't pushing my son enough

[poco2015]

I am not sure what to do. My son is in full time nursery, he is 2 and a bit. He has begun blending and is reading cvc words and sounding out to help him. He is fantastic at numbers can count to 20 (and beyond when he feels like it) can understand the concept of taking away and adding (with objects). We have been doing doubling and halving at home which he can do but sometimes doubles when you say halve and halves when you say double, but we have been doing this for only a week so he is still bound to make mistakes. At the moment when the preschoolers do phonics and maths time DS goes in with them, I keep asking for them to help him with his fine motor but they say they are, but we are not seeing much improvement and what they are doing seems to be very basic. wwyd as i don't want to come across as too much of a controlling mum. I already pushed to get him into the preschoolers room for the phonics and maths

Let your child do what he wants to do and he will happily develop at his own pace. He doesn't need his fine motor skills developed as a project by someone else.
Play is not an idle activity. Free play is important for a child's development, confidence and creativity.

You're talking about Read, Write, Inc? They still start from scratch, even with the assessments. Besides, if he gets to the end of the reading phase before year 2, he'll just do spelling like all the other children. It won't change anything.

You're pushing too hard and wasting these years you'll never get back.

pocco I have a DC that was very much ahead, the same way that your DC is.
I remember walking with him and dc2 in the pram so he was just 2yo and he was telling g me the letters written on the pram. Just like your DC, he loved doing that sort of stuff.

Dc1is now 12yo and this is what I've learnt t so far.

• the most important thing is to concentrate to him developing as a fully rounded individual, which actually means focusing on what he is finding more difficult rather than what he does well. Do some stuff at home that encourage his fine motor skills. Go outside, do some sports activities, listen to music with him, talk. What will enrich his life and help him develop isn't to learn techniques such as counting and reading (he will do that at school and will pick it up very easily). It's keeping his curiosity intact, talking and explaining anything and everything. It doesn't have to be 'school based' but much more if a very fluid approach to learning, maybe similar to what people do when they are homeschooling.
• School, primary and secondary are unlikely to stretch your DC very far. Don't teach him too much. He will be even more bored (that's an advice from my own dc1).
• put a lot of emphasis on personal and people skills, emotional intelligence, and self confidence. Being G&T can be quite hard work for children as they always stand out from their peers.

-finally, encourage him to play and be silly just like any other child!

OP, I actually also had some concerns about how much my dd was learning at her preschool (it's a private one - she attended the nursery attached to it from when she was a baby.). There's a good level of care at the nursery and preschool, they're great in many ways, but very little opportunity for doing phonics, writing etc, and she seemed to be getting bored (it didn't help that the kids in her room are quite a boisterous bunch, and she quite likes quieter play). So we reduced the number of hours she has there (she still goes for some time, and enjoys the opportunity to play with friends.) But she also goes some of the time to a childminder, who (while also playing with her, walking in the countryside etc) is teaching her literacy, numeracy, and also other stuff - French, how to swim, cooking etc. It's fantastic, a great balance we think (including also the stuff we do as a family, and the play dates, etc etc) and dd seems really happy. And of course, we are so lucky to have found an amazing childminder!

As you see, you get dismembered on here for admitting you think your child is intelligent. Most people I know in the real world think their toddlers are unusually intelligent (I thought this was human nature, to a certain extent!) Obviously, the toddlers can't all be unusually intelligent, but I think it's ok that their parents think they are.

And now I will never open this thread again, as I will be too scared what people will say about me.

Btw I disagree with the idea it's a waste of time. Learning to read early will allow him to have more time to learn something else.
The issue is more that if he is 2 or 3 years ahead (or more, some children dont get the understanding of what adding actually means until they are in Y2 or Y3), the school is unlikely to be able to teach him at his level anyway.

^^This.

I always find these threads amusing.

And I have to say I have never found that sort of comments amusing Aye
Some children ARE ahead and DO learn anything way ahead of their peers.
Not acknowledging that is doing them a disservice as well as in effect putting their abilities down as if being clever wasn't an acceptable thing (or do rare that really your child can't really be doing that).

The OP has posted in the G&T section. At the very least let's acknowledge that her DC IS very able and support her.

If you have any experience of raising a child that if G&T, please give the OP some advice. Otherwise, maybe avoid putting down comments?

I'd be surprised if nursery aren't doing a load of fine motor skills things OP. All nurseries I have visited have painting, drawing, cutting and sticking, play dough, puzzles, fine motor stuff everywhere. It's normal for them to come on in jumps and pauses too, so don't worry if he doesn't immediately improve. It's also quite normal for kids to be advanced in other areas and normal/behind for fine motor. And for them to find this frustrating if they realise. My DD is like that. She can see in her head what she wants to draw, but her hand can't do it. She'll draw the same picture 5 times over because it's not 'right', getting more and more upset each time, despite our best efforts to assure her it looks fine. She once burst into tears because she forgot a 'catastrophe' (apostrophe! Not something I'd ever even mentioned to her.).

poco2015, when you say your child has been identified as at the 'beginning' with his fine motor skills...may I ask what concerns you about this?

My experience is that fine motor skills take a long time to develop (more so than gross motor skills, generally), and can be continually improved throughout primary school (and sometimes into adulthood).

May I ask how he's doing with fork/spoon/knife?

Ds2 had very good fine motor skills at 2, but my guess is that this was because he was almost disabled by undiagnosed coeliac and didn't have the energy for crawling and walking and put his efforts into playing with things in front of him.
It's fine to encourage them in what they're good at, have an interest in, but pushing just isn't necessary.

Those folks pshawing over additional support for fine motor skills have clearly never had a child with fine motor difficulties requiring both external therapy and in-home practise . Hence trying to work out whether the DC is indeed in need of extra support in this area, or just not quite there yet.
In exactly the same way as some dcs pick stuff up easily, some require heavy duty OT in order to be able to access cutlery or a pencil. Sometimes, these are the SAME dcs. Heavy stuff, huh?

Madwoman, 2 is a bit young for the need for 'extra support' for fine motor skills isn't it? I mean, feed them raisins by all means, but no one got in a tizzy when my DS still had rubbish fine motor skills at 4, never mind 2. So many normal nursery activities at that age do help fine motor anyway, it's hard to see what more they could do.

Generally speaking, stuff like using raisins to improve pincer grip and whatnot is exactly what your average OT would do with a 2yo (also clothes pegs, peg puzzle boards, posting games etc) All easily done at home and at nursery. Dd2 had physio and SLT from birth, and OT added in at 2, but at that point she was working on getting her hands to the midline with the physio. Most nt kids don't need OT intervention, and yes, most nurseries are great at providing activities that support fine motor development leading into tripod grip for crayons/ pencils, but the OP seemed to think fine motor was an issue for her ds. I have no idea whether it is or not, (no detail on whether he is feeding himself etc, and op hasn't really said in what way she thinks his fine motor is delayed) but if she thinks it is, then those sorts of activities would be great.

The OT sourced some specialist cutlery for us that allowed dd2 to hold a spoon, so sometimes it's functionality rather than raisin games lol. (She was crap at raisins. Would have starved to death without us shoveling)

Depends on the level of delay, really. But yes, 2 is very little to be bothered by fine motor without having some specific and extensive concerns (I don't think this applies to the op). Plenty of time to develop, and mostly referrals would be done later as usually concerns are flagged by writing skills. (although without a doubt every OT we have ever seen has a spectacular thumb wrap, so sometimes I wonder...)

My ds had really good fine motor skills from early age, but same as Bumply's dc, he was ill all the time and spend so much time in hospital when he was a baby/toddler.
All he can do was something he could do quietly in the house.
It did make a lot of difference, I think. By nursery, he was able to use scissors so well, and hold a pencil properly, nursery stuff was amazed. Yet, he can't use cutlery properly at age of 7.(lazy)

Op I have a dd (classed as gifted) she was reading at a very young age. Nothing to do with me pushing her, she wanted to learn. Her fine motor skills were not the best. He vocabulary is fantastic it struggled a little more with numbers. I know her first few teachers though she was hot housed. However she is still very advanced and it's really very little to do with me or dh.

Ds (4) is fantastic at numbers and phonics, at then start of the school year he couldn't have cared less about reading. Now he is flying with it.
His fine motor skills are excellent but he is far behind where ds was at school at this age.

And do you know what? It doesn't matter. They all have strengths and all have the bits they aren't so good at. Let him be and don't panic. If his brain and body aren't ready, nursery can practice all they want. But there won't be a huge difference. Let him play and his fine motor skills will come.

Ds school move kids around for certain things. However in reception the moving round is within their own class. Ds is in the more advanced group which means....he has 6 more sounds than the others. There is no huge difference. 6 sounds....that's it.

Kids are only kids for a short period. Let them enjoy it. If he is gifted, he is gifted. If he isn't...so what?

So what if in 3/4 years he has slowed down and others have caught up and he is average?

Ds may follow dd into the gifted programme at their schools, he may not. But he is a fantastic boy who will have his own achievements. Don't put all guys pressure on him and you X

My almost 2 year old is good at halving and doubling too. He breaks his biscuits in half and mooshes them up in separate places to make double the mess.

He is just a baby OP. You have about another 16 years to worry about his academic achievements. Let him be 2. Let nursery let him be 2.

According to my mother - and I believe it - I started reading at 20 months. I have memories of reading books to my older brother aged 3.
I'm bright, and I've achieved a fair bit, but I'm not happier, and haven't had a more successful career, than my dh who was pushing 8 before he was reading.
And I have to say it would never have occurred to me to teach my 2yos sums or phonics. Endless requests for Green Eggs and Ham on repeat were more than enough for me

I actually don't agree it doesn't matter and they are only small fur a short time.
The OP has never said she was pushing him to learn she said that child wanted to learn.
I have a child like that has self taught science at Alevel when he was in primary.
I've never done ANY extra work with him just gave him the opportunity to see/watch/read things that I though he would enjoy.

The thing is I could also have said 'oh he is only a child. Let's leave him play and enjoy himself. Why giving him books about chemistry and the structure of atoms'
What would have happened is that I would have stopped his enquiring mind, I would squashed his curiosity because let's face it, what another child would have found interesting, he is finding boring....

It is essential to provide opportunities and interest at the level of the child. It is also essential not to forget they are individuals and they need to develop their emotional intelligence, their social skills etc.
It's not about going one OR the other they are not incompatible as some pp seem to think. It's totally possible to learn 2,3, 5 years above your age AND play AND have friends AND do some sports.
No parent should ever feel uneasy because they are giving to their child what suits them. Whether it's much more complex than you expect it much more simple than you expect.
And yes that also means that some children will LOVE the very academic work of learning phonics. Even if most don't or if we, as adults, have very bad memories of it

But by not giving them opportunities to learn what they enjoy, you are actually stopping these children to learn that learning is fun and enjoyable. You are stopping them from growing up and learning at their own pace. If that is what is suitable for most children, the ones that are struggling etc why is it not suitable for those who are ahead?

As for not making a f* difference when they are older, I would say that how well you are doing is linked with a myriad of different things, not just how intelligent you are. So not expecting your DC to be the next Einstein is probably my a good idea. But saying they won't do better than most Is wrong too. They clearly have the abilities for a start. Why acting as if being bright makes no difference at all?

I totally agree with WoodHeaven.
In kath6144 's friend's dd's, case it didn't go so well because it wasn't child initiated learning.

Some children find learning fun from earlier age, and my ds was one of them. And it's far from hothousing.

Poor kid, let him play whilst he can, he's two. He has plenty of time to learn stuff, you need to look why you are being so pushy with your baby. You do know you cant fufill your own ambitions in through your child dont you? Hope you smart enough to read and digest that everyone else is saying the same!

She did push to get him to do work with the preschool children while all the others in his group play. Sounds like pushing to me

..true...