Is my 3yr old Normal?

[StarlightDicKenzie]

I've pretty much ignored my poor 3yr old dd for the last two years and she has brought herself up amazingly well. My Ds has ASD and taken all of our energy.

Now, it is clear that my dd doesn't NEED much to thrive and I have no worries about her, but something her preschool have said have made me wonder if I am doing her a disservice.

They say that they think she is extremely bright and is ready for reception (she's due into nursery in Sept, but is a Sept birthday so missed reception by a coup,e of weeks).

Now I KNOW she doesn't know much in the way of formal academics. She can't read or do academic maths, but she can solve fairly complex problems and 'negotiate' confidently with pretty much anyone in a precocious way. An example is when we ate in a restaurant she wanted milk and I told her no, so then she said she was going to the toilet and took herself off. (she can do buttons, zips, toilet locks snd wipe etc. independently and well) Whilst she was gone, the waitress brough not only a glass of milk to the table but one that had been 'warmed up'.

Now I'm beginning to think this is all a bit outside normal, but with my first born having ASD (5) who needs help with the toilet and pretty much everything I have nothing as a baseline.

Should I just try and actually TEACH here to read or something?

Her conversations are usually about how owls build their nests or about who likes who at preschool or about waxing or waning moons etc. where she even gets the information is quite beyond me.

I can't believe the comments. Do you really think OP left her DD to take care of herself for 3 years??? Ever heard about hyperbola?
What OP is trying to say is that she has no benchmark to compare her DD with, as her son has ASD. Hence she's trying to figure out if all kids behave that way in this age, or is her daughter more advanced than the rest of her peers. If she is, than it might potentially lead to her starting school earlier or doing things with her like teaching her to read etc. I can't see why/how the majority of commentators managed to see anything bad/ abusive/ calling-for-the-social-services in this.
OP, I think your DD might benefit from being taught to read- it will give you two some quality time together, you could go to bookstore/library together, then may be tea and cake afterwards... Bliss ;)

You'd call social services because a 3-year old went to the toilet by themselves and....nothing happened?

I wonder what they'd say?

stop wasting out time maybe?

Thanks everyone. For those who think you can get respite for a child like mine. Trust me, it doesn't happen. I spent a year fighting for it until I realised I was on the bring of exhaustion for the fight alone. And if I'm honest it is fighting the authorities for basic things that takes up the majority of my time, not my Ds' care needs.

Perhaps I'm just very VERY impressed at typical child development. My daughter is AMAZING to me and I just wondered how it happened. As mentioned, I have no bench mark, and unlike perhaps with a pfb I cannot proudly announce that the things she seems to know we're taught by me.

As for going to the toilet on her own, like all parents I do a risk assessment of the situation (how far away it is, whether loos are likely to be well kept, if i know those particular loos well etc.) or intervene if I need to.

Bet you got more than you bargained for here, didn't you OP?! People are very quick to jump to conclusions.

I think it's lovely that you find your dd so amazing, and I wouldn't mind betting that that's where a large part of her confidence springs from. Regardless of how bright she turns out to be academically, that initiative and self-confidence will stand her in very good stead. It is a delight to have a child like this - enjoy!!

She sounds bright but normal - something you're just not used to so it's a shock :) Also, she will be more independent because your attention is needed elsewhere. DD is far more independent than her elder brothers were and could have happily waltzed into reception rather than nursery. She's not gifted though - bright but not gifted.

She isn't neglected either (FFS!)

Enjoy her :)

Your DD does sound socially advanced, OP. I think my DS1 could do this (toilet on his own, place an order with waitress) and he is 4.5 - but he wouldn't do it because he is timid and I am overprotective

I think it must be very hard work for you. I worry that I don't give DS1 enough of the attention he needs (he has two younger siblings) and mine are all (so far) NT. He has a strong need for affirmation from me - he wants me to notice things he's done and praise him for them, and I am trying hard to make sure I do that, however distracted I get with everything else.

Maybe my only advice would be to try and chat with your daughter and make sure she knows that you like her / value her as a person (regardless of her independence/capability etc.) I sometimes feel that DS1 feels he has to show me how good he is at doing things in order to earn my approval, and I am now trying to show him that I approve of him just how he is. It is harder than it sounds (showing him, I mean, not approving of him - of course I do that, I think he is wonderful).

You probably do this anyway, but just letting my thoughts come out.

"I have no relationship whatsoever with my mother"

I second QZ 100%!!

My brother was born with a severe disability just before my second birthday and I too was a fiercely independent child, very bright for my age but then I had to be to get my needs met. Bright and independent, I was also a charming child and learnt quickly how to use my looks to illicit attention and warmth from other children and adults - but i wasn't happy.

Fair enough, my parents were lovely and did all the basics like providing me with food, clean clothes, shelter etc but everything else I had to produce from within. So yes Im a successful and independent adult, with a shiny career, great relationship etc but my parents dont share that with me, particularly my Mum, I have next to no relationship with her.

I've also seen it in my career as a social worker, some neglected children become incredibly bright and resourceful, because they have to to survive. I'm not saying you're neglectful as such but its on the same contiuum.

Well DS will be attending school next term at last (tribunal depending) and we've had to take dd out of preschool due to finances so I should get to spend a lovely summer term with her (although 3rd baby will pop out in the middle somewhere).

Sorry, that sounded harsh, I'm not saying you're neglectful AT ALL you are a loving Mum in a difficult situation and you have my utmost respect for parents in your situation - I just wanted to give you a cautionary tale about what can happen to the Mother-Daughter relationship if she feels she has to meet her own needs from a very young age.

*I have utmost respect for parents in your situation

That sounds lovely OP, I'm sure your daughter will love having you to herself all term!

Very silly to let a 3 year old go to the loo alone.There are weirdos and bottles of chemicals in some public toilets. YES>>>peado hysteria but why risk it?

That's okay all. btw I didn't say she couldn't have milk because I was neglecting her, she drinks it by the gallon and doesn't eat much whilst suffering with a couple of conditions that 'could' be caused by milk.

The fact she went against me and ordered it herself, plus getting her to warm it up (she's very particular) had me fairly stunned.

'let her' Mary believe me I have no choice in the matter. It's only if I have any real worries would I get into a stand off argument that would last the weekend with her absolute refusal to pee if I was there.

Sounds like you've had a wakeup call just at the right time OP. I used to work with children with disabilities so I know how incredibly hard it can be to even get basics like dental care sorted. Unfortunately I've also seen the terrible burden siblings carry. If the sibling isn't demanding then they pretty much get ignored, which is totally understandable but heartbreaking. I will never forget a nine year old sister of a girl with ASD. She came in one day for a SibShop event and she just wasn't able to have fun and be a child. She was only 9 but she could only relate to us teachers and was just so out of place and unhappy. She kept talking about the jobs she had to do with her sister - she really sounded like a little mother in a child's body. Her mother was the kindest most caring person on earth but over the years she had unwittingly neglected her older daughter completely.

I was always considered a precocious intelligent child. I wasn't, particularly, I just had to look out for myself because no one else would do it. It was survival. Unlike you though, my parents had no excuse. I did have a disabled younger sibling but I looked after her too.

Starlight, have you tried Homestart for help? A friend has them come for a couple of hours once a week, it's not much but it gives her some dedicated 1:1 time with her older child. Sorry if you've already tried that.

Siblings of children with disabilities often have lots of issues, mainly due to the call on the resources and time of their parents by their disabled sibling, but also linked with the problems around parents being unable to work and earn due to their caring role.
I know a number of familes where all the children have taken into care, not just the child with disabilities because the parents could no longer give them all the care they needed.

I know I used the word 'respite' but I didntt just mean formal respite arrangements, I meant from family/friends or 3rd sector groups too- e.g. will his school run a summer playscheme so you can have time with your other children over the holidays? (In our LA the special schools all remain open 5/6 weeks in summer, though maybe he's in m/s, not sure) Will a granny have him for an afternoon? Etc etc. I realise that people offering practical help can be very thin on the ground, perhaps even more so for ASD than other disabilities, indeed for my parents, people used to take me out and leave my brother with my parents, to 'give them a break'

I am just worried about where you fiind time for yourself too in all this?

I understand your amazement at seeing the development of an NT child after that of a child with ASD. please enjoy her as much as you possibly can. 3yo are amazing, I think they're fantastic!

Hi Starlight,

After reading your post, I would say that you were talking about my DD. She is fiercely independent, was talking at around 7/8 months, walking at the age of 10 months (running I should really write), out of nappies completely (never wore night time nappies) at 16 months and reading at the age of 2, to state some of the things she did. She is also an autumn baby and she joined nursery in September, but is in the reception class (work for the year above). I also have another daughter who is ADD and yes it can be difficult, emotionally and physically all consuming.

Now, that said, I can see and appreciate, why you would feel that you do not really need to focus too much or worry too much about her. However, guidance is so important. If I left it to my daughter to her own devices, she would be cooking her own meals, telling me how to dress, and telling me where to go to get our petrol (at the best price), BUT I don?t let her - simply because she is a child first and foremost. Being a good parent it being just that ? a good parent, and you need to give your time to both children ? even to the extent of making time especially for her.

If I wanted to leave my children out in the garden all day, I could ? but I do not. If I wanted to let them sit in front the television all day, I could, but I do not. If I wanted to feed them chicken nuggets dipped in chocolate sauce all day everyday: breakfast, lunch and supper, I could ? but I do not, simply because, I know this is not parenting.

You are obviously a proud mother, and so you should be, but do not forget your little DD needs you to be that to her ? a mother - to guide her and give her your time.

In terms of her reading ? yes, ?if? she wants to, as you need your cue from her. If she loves books, then by all means - library, fridge magnets for letter recognition, singing songs, are all good places to start ? but there is no rush!

The school is obviously a good school to recognise her abilities, as some schools (not all) tend wait until they are a little older, to voice their opinions.

Good luck in all that you do Starlight.

MTC

Sorry- lots of cross posts there... taken me about 40 mins to type that!

StarlightDicKenzie,
Please ignore the nasty posts. It sounds like you are doing an excellent job.

I don't think letting a nearly four year old go to toilet on their own is a problem at all. As you said if she had been born a month earlier she would be starting reception. A restaurant is semi private and if you know the restuarant well you know if there are heavy doors.

As far as reading goes, I suppose it depends on how keen she is. You could get some Jolly phonics resources and see how she gets on. All it requires is about five to ten minutes a day. If she is ready then she will pick up reading quickly.

Chateau We have used homestart before (for a 6 week period) and they are an excellent resource which I would recommend to anyone.

The reason I cancelled them was because there were just too many agencies and people and appointments in our lives and that was the easiest to cancel.

Since then I've cancelled pretty much all the others so might consider homestart again when we have a permanent address/LA as despite being the most informal/non-statutory they were the most helpful.

Thank you Really. She likes to point out letters she sees that are in her and her brother's name and I 'think' she can recognise numbers up to 10.

The funny thing is though, that compared to her brother at that age, she is very behind on the concrete academics. He definitely has 'gifts'!

QZ, we have no friends. I know that sounds strange but we had to sell up to pay for therapy and legal costs, so we moved, and the battle became so time consuming that I turned down the very rate invitations so I coukd get paperwork done, and DH increased his hours.

No grandparents within 200 miles who are elderly except my mum who has recently lost my dad. Between organising my Dad's non-will she has occasionally been able to have the kids but only when I have begged because of a paperwork deadline.

StarlightDicKenzie, it must feel very isolating having a child with serious special needs. I'm right in thinking you live in Hertfordshire?

I don't think people realise how tough it is for disabled people and their families at the moment. Wealthy familes bleating about child benefit is more newsworthy.

Thank you Reality, we are taking probably quite radical steps to improve things (aka getting the hell out of Hertfordshire who hired a solicitor against us for asking for different but cheaper provision for DS), and our plan is to have some resemblance of family life when we are settled.

It's a journey that has all but destroyed us but somehow we're still going and planning our future. The trouble is that whilst we are busy planning, dd is losing her childhood.

Our biggest barriers tbh is the attitude of the general public. Not their actions against us, but their passiveness and ignorance meaning that agencies and successive governments can get away with things you would not believe.

There are only so many wrongs and incidents of maladministration a parent can take on at a time and a lot of wrongs we have suffered have had to remain unchallenged.

StarlightDicKenzie I hope your DS gets the provision he needs. I am sorry for the amount of suffering that your family has had. I hope that wherever you move to is more reasonable.

"Our biggest barriers tbh is the attitude of the general public. Not their actions against us, but their passiveness and ignorance meaning that agencies and successive governments can get away with things you would not believe."

I do believe you. I know of incidences of where children with autism and their families have been treated appaulingly. Yet some of the cuts cost more money in the long term.

I think the problem is that children with autism look normal. People can sympathise with a child who is in a wheelchair or has a hearing aid. However a lot of ignorant people are quick to judge children with autism. Rigid thinking and lack of flexibility exists in the NT community as the autistic community.