Worried about my meeting with school

[mrsshears]

I have a meeting coming up with my 5yr old dd's school to discuss her recent IQ test results,i'm really not looking forward to it
School have been very defensive and basically have me down as a nightmare pushy mother,despite the fact dd1 went to the same school and i never went in to see the teachers in all her time there,in fact i bet some of the teachers wouldn'nt have even known who i was back then!
I'm really looking for any help or advice anyone has as to how i should handle this meeting,i know they have done some sats papers with dd over the last couple of weeks which whilst i'm glad they are doing something it kind of defeates the object imo as i'm sure they will have been full of things dd has'nt yet been taught (with the exception of the reading one) so i can't imagine she will have done too well,but then the cynic in me thinks that this is why they have done them.
What i want to say is that i just want dd to be challenged at her own level,not pushed but challenged,but i'm unsure as to how i can get this across without making myself look even worse?
On a positive note dd has been moved up a couple of book bands which has already boosted her confidence which i'm really pleased about.
Maybe i'm looking at this meeting far too pessimistically(sorry about my spelling) but after all we have been through i can't help it.
I would be really greatful for any advice any of you have.

I'm mostly posting because we're going to be in the same place before too long, but here are some of my thoughts from what we've done so far (and my continual struggle with being a bossy confrontational arse).

Go in and ask questions first - even if that is 'what do you think dd's issues are at school?'. I always want to fly in and accuse, but you need to find out what they actually think, esp if they are doing to be defensive.

Do some research beforehand - both the county and the school should have g&t policies and I am currently mining ours clues for what we might ask for (or at least the phrases to dress it up in).

Have a list of the points you want to make in bullet points, so that when you get all flustered and in-front-of-the-head-teacher-y, you can refer to it.

Work out what you do want from the meeting, whether that's just acknowledgement of the problem, different work within the class or something more drastic. Or is it something more subtle, like more encouragement for her so that she feels able to use her full potential?

Do the school have a g&t co-ordinator or SENCO? Will they be at the meeting?

the sats results will show what she doesn't know. giving you areas to work on, rather than guessing what she knows and doesn't know (ask on the primary education board for ideas)

ask them to explain the discrepancy in the results of sats and the test. eg what is it about the classroom environment that dd struggles with. does she not try something, and if so do they think she is lacking in confidence or is she too scared to get something wrong.

err actually, I would go with what one sandwich said... which is a lot better...

Thanks for your reply onesandwichshort

DD definately needs more encouragement,i think she needs to be treated as a child with a high ability,imo dd is well aware that her teachers don't feel she is particularly bright which in turn has affected her confidence.
A good example being a couple of weeks ago dd reeled off lots of maths questions,i said thats really good dd did you do that today? she replied oh no thats the * level learning (top group),i dont do that level,i replied but you can do it,you just have? to which dd said no i dont do that level.

I know the school has a senco,not sure about g and t but i think its just going to be myself,dh,dd's teacher and the head present.

susan i think dd's sensory issues affect the classroom situation alot,she is also a perfectionist and has a fear of faliure although we have made lots of progress in this area at home recently,dd's reception teacher really annoyed me with the perfectionism as she would say dd needed to feel successful and therefore let dd coast and remain unchallenged all through reception making the problem worse,i mean who goes through life always feeling successful? surely we learn by making mistakes?

dd used to hide from words she thought were too hard. it took a lot of hard work to get her to attempt books with "hard" words, first by reading the hard words for her, then by making her try-just-a-tiny-bit-scary-but-you-can-read-it-if-you-try-words and building up gradually. i suppose if we had not, then she would not be reading as well as she is and getting such pleasure out of books. there also comes a point where you have got to learn persistence and effort because some things will not come easy.

I am not the best person to ask about talking to staff, as sometimes I only open my mouth to change feet! asked why she hadn't had her book changed, perhaps she had not put it in the basket (fair enough) and had it been signed twice, as they like them to read the book twice (except no-one has ever said this to parents ) unfortunately, I said that we only read it once as she is often word perfect the first time, and perhaps they ought to give us harder books to make it worth reading twice. oops a years worth of frustration at the system is hard to keep in and a little bit escaped tonight. I am hoping that I have not upset the teacher too much as she is a lovely nqt

Sorry for your situation susan but i'm glad its not just me

on the brightside, you know how bright she is/potential as you have the results in black and white. even if the school try and fob you off and make out you are mad and delusional and she is as thick as a brick because she can't do xyz because they have not taught her at least you know and will not start to doubt your on sanity.

i am definately doubting my sanity though as have only got my experience of dd to go on and am not sure what is inate ability and what is down to the 1:1 teaching. sometimes I think she is bright as she can do xyz, but other times I try to introduce something to her and it will take a few goes to understand it, but maybe it should if we are working at the limit of her ability. sometimes I think that it does not matter, it will all come out in the sats, then other times, I think what if they have not taught her to answer sats questions...

(now where was that wet fish?)

Do you know what? Today i feel so strong and determined to bloody well fight for my dd at that meeting!
Why should my dd not have an education? surely this is every childs basic right? don't get me wrong i'm going to do it politely and reasonably BUT i'm not going to give up or back down,if i don't advocate for dd who the hell will?

Yes exactly. I will also reply on the other thread later, but we were told by a friend (who, helpfully, is a v good primary head) "if she was as far behind the rest of the class as she was ahead, they'd be pulling all the stops out. So what's the difference?".

I've now read our school's g&t policy which is some well meaning flannel about every child having a right to reach their potential, but I think there is a point there. Are they helping her to reach her full potential? How might this best be done? Does your school have a policy? Found ours in the prospectus after a bit of searching.

i think i would just focus on the discrepancy between potential and results thus far, and see if you can work together to rootle out the confidence issues and low self esteem/ sensory difficulties or whatever.

as you know dd2 has a similar profile and for us it has been useful because she also has cp, so we can refer to the report if expectations are too low because of her disability. (so the staff have quite a tricky job if i'm honest - she has obvious limitations due to her disability, but the staff have to work round that and ensure she is reaching her academic potential... )

soooo, anyway. i am always desperately lovely to school staff, and terribly obsequious about their professional expertise, and make sure i ask for plenty of advice and seek their opinion on pretty much anything and everything, because clearly we all want the best for all of the children, and it must be terribly difficult with so little funding etc etc. that strokes their ego nicely and i usually get whatever dd2 needs.

in an ideal world it would be offered on a plate, but i'm not willing to chance it by demanding my rights. gently gently catchee monkey, or hwatever the damn saying is. it got us a perfectly worded statement on the first re-write as well, without a murmur of dissent.

Your right madwoman,i do generally try to play it that way too,it just doesnt seem to work at present.
On a bit of a tangent but are people generally aware of your dd being gifted? at school i mean,other parents and staff etc.
We decided not to tell anyone other than immediate family,dd's school and some close friends,after dd's assessment dr congdon asked us if we were interested in press involvement as it can sometimes be useful,we declined as i think it would just have made things difficult for dd.
I do wonder now though,press aside as that would never be an option,if more people were aware of dd's potential would this make any difference with school? would they feel more inclined pressured into doing something? just a thought really.

not really, we don't make a thing about it. i occasionally mention her iq to professionals, usually the ones who try to patronise her and then make a surprised comment about how switched on she is. but really as a sort of educational moment for them, you understand, not to be snippy. oh no. i think it's important for people's expectations to be challenged once in a while. we handed over the ep report to school, but don't think other parents or whatever have much of a clue - not really an issue. i think it's easier for us in some ways because we automatically have more contact with school because of the cp thing - so they always want to know her inside leg measurement etc etc. and schools are always very wary of whether she needs learning support, so it's a good way of reassuring them she isn't going to drag their results down. and of course we've moved schools a lot, so it's always 'tell me about your child', which you wouldn;t get staying in one place.

i did have one parent in yr r come up to me and ask in hushed tones if It was True. (reading levels lol. she was v competitive ubermother and was secretly aghast that the drooly kid with the walking frame might be brighter than her child... who to be fair was streets ahead of the majority of the entry, but there was still a fair gap between said child and dd2. i just looked a bit blank and we had the reading levels discussion, and then she spent the rest of the year giving me an update (in further hushed tones) and fishing to see whether x was catching up. i just know if i'd given her the ep report or told her the results she'd be off to get x tested.)

It must be absolutely infuriating to have someone judge your child like that! ,we have lots of those parents at our school which has'nt helped our cause because the teachers think i'm just another one.
I think it would have more of a negative effect on dd if people knew tbh as i think some people would will her to fail and wonder why she isnt amazing at everything,its just all a learning curve for me at the minute and i often wonder about the best/right way to handle the situation.

on a slightly different topic, the other week i said we had no plans to get ds1 assessed as there was no real requirement. so of course, yesterday at ds1's paed appt, the paed wants a complete pscho-ed evaluation done due to his distractibility and a few other quirks... and he's got the assessment booked for december. hey ho. i guess we are getting him assessed after all.

I bet if you wanted him tested, themn there would be nothing on earth that could persuade them! sod's law strikes again.

yes you have to fight, but you have to fight in a clever way. persuade them that it is their idea to do... xyz. easier said than done

I desperately do not want to be one of those parents... those being thinking dd is brilliant when she isn't. I suspect that I might be seen a bit like that. did tell the teacher that I knew what she as doing at home, but did not know what she as doing at school because they do not always do the same. did not say what she as doing at home though.

wondering whether there is a problem with ds. going to see the dr. I can imagine that if anyone gets tested, it will be ds, even though I am curious about dd. ( don't think i would test unless there is a problem, and there isn't...but i am the nosiest person I know!)

I spend so long tying myself in knots trying to avoid being a pushy parent that it's a miracle I ever say anything at all.

I also think that madwoman is spot on about addressing the lack of confidence issues (I think that this is perhaps a more useful phrase than 'self esteem', certainly I prefer it for DD).

I had a meeting with the teacher today, mostly about olayground issues, and she is currently finding strategies to encourage DD to speak up. And I think this might be helpful across the board; because if she speaks up in lessons they will know what she can do and, perhaps more importantly, she will get praised for it. Then she will feel more confident, etc etc. So if anyone has any ideas about how to do this outside the classroom, that would be handy. (And, incidentally, they have realised that differentiation in the classroom won't work, so she will be going up to Yr1 for guided reading, which is a bonus ).

I'm intrigued that Peter Congdon suggested going to the press - that suggests her report puts her in a very high percentile indeed. I don't think it would help with the current school much, would probably just make them more defensive. More useful, I would have thought, if you want to try and get a bursary for her either now or later on.

For us, school have been concerned not to isolate DD from the group (something she's quite inclined to do for herself by wandering off to sit in the corner with a book), and so we don't tend to make much comment on her reading, but I think that not acknowledging what she can do has actually undermined her confidence more.

MWITA - I'm with susan, if you'd wanted an assessment, you'd have had to fight tooth and nail.

from an academic pov, it will be really interesting, i think what fun we can have chez mad over a cold winter evening comparing everyone's results...

onesandwich - i'm a big fan of brownies for shy or underconfident girls. we've got one who actually didn't turn up to make her promise because she had stage fright, but three weeks later with the pressure off and a slightly lower key ceremony, she's indistinguishable from the rest of the pack. and a lot of the activities are based around everyone contributing etc, and it's in a fun environment, so they aren't worried about whether their contribution is right, so perfectionist tendencies are reduced too... and the possibility for sleepovers and camps means that it's a gentle way into a little bit of independence too...

i know she isn't quite old enough for brownies yet, but some rainbows groups are a good starting point (some aren't - dd1 went to great one, and then a really awful one, so you need to be careful!!) something to ponder for later, anyway.

when is your meeting? I tried to read through but distracted by children.

Forgive me, I haven't read the whole thread but your comment about your DDs perfectionism and fear of failure stopped me in my tracks as that is my daughter too! I have had huge issues with teacher not accepting my statements as to DDs giftedness in mathematics and language as they do not see it at school dut to her motivation to avoid failure and refusal to take risks. In the end it took presenting them with the Ed. psych. report took make them realise I am not a pushy, deluded idiot and that DD is genuinely gifted! What makes it worse is I am also their colleague! :)
So as a parent of a gifted child (who does not show her potential at school) and a teacher my advice to you is:

1. go in with as much evidence of your child's ability as possible. If, for example, she is not showing them (or being given the opportunity to demonstrate) her ability in Maths, sign her up to something like Maths Whizz online and take them a printout of her start up assessment (it will give you a 'maths age' so it is very easy to show she is peforming above expected level). Alternatively look to Mathletics for similar (or their linked ReadingEggs for language skills).
2. have the supporting evidence regarding her perfectionism and fear of failure and how that is impacting her performance at school. 3)ask them to praise her for method/effort NOT achievement so that she begins to see the value is in the work done not in getting the 'right answer'. Praise her in this way at home too ('you did such a good job on that, I can see you have practised/worked hard' etc. rather than 'you're so smart'. 'you did that so fast' etc.) as this helps children who are afraid of risks. Keep reminding them that this is necessary. (Read Mindset, Carol Dweck). She cannot avoid risks in education - she needs to learn their value and you can teach this at home as much as they can at school.
3. talk with them = ask them what they view her strengths and weaknesses as. Ask them if they really do understand what her true ability is, or is she keeping it masked (remind them if necessary that teachers fail to identify 50% of gifted children)
4. ask them what enrichment strategies they have in place in school, in their local education authority etc. Ask how they would assess your daughter's suitability for these (because if she is not willing to show her ability in school she may well not benefit from these programmes). Ask them why they have a view of your DD that is so at odds from your own experience of your child and whether this does not in fact concern them (and what tools they have in school - personnel - that can be deployed to ascertain her abilitly/potential). Keep reiterating that your concern is that your child is not receiving an approprate education and ask them to provide details of their curriculum and also their extension/enrichment policies.
5. you have identified her fear of failure as an issue. ask them to put in place strategies to help her with this and also with her perfectionism so that she learns to enjoy challenges and can see an enjoyable learning opportunity in failing.
6. ask them to discuss with you any concerns they have or to highlight areas where she can improve or show more focus.
7. be honest. tell them you are feeling frustrated and worried about her not receiving an education that challenges her and that you want to work with them in helping your daughter genuinely progress. This doesn't need to be about her leaping through the curriculum more quickly; there is plenty of opportunity to broaden and deepen knowledge in many areas. Ask them if she can bring her own work/projects in to work on if she finishes quickly and try to give them concrete examples of what she is achieving at home.

Good luck!

Hi susan
No date still,i was told to expect a call from the head last week but it did'nt materialise ,my mum thinks that they are maybe awaiting advice from somewhere,i hope she is right,i will wait until the end of this week but will then have to ask again.
on a positive note dd's teacher has been quite friendly and comunicative this week which is obviously a good thing.
DD came home with the songs for her christmas play and the dc had obviously been told to practice hard at home on them as dd spent 2hrs learning them and would not accept any interuption at all,this is the type of determination she shows all the time at home,i wish school could see her behaving this way.
Thanks so much for taking the time to post such helpful information adoptmama i really appreciate it.

no date still? how frustrating.

Gaaah, I can't believe they haven't sorted out the meeting yet. Although if your mum's suggestion is right, then that might be a very big positive. And an acknowledgement from them that they haven't been getting it right so far.

Susan - that is really good news about the KS2 books, and also the assessment. It does sound as though things are moving, even if slowly. But that also seems to be our experience, it's like turning a supertanker round in terms of reaction times. It took them half a term to get any kind of additional work going (and even that is fitful), they are still looking for literacy resources, and perhaps next term she will go into Yr1 for reading. it will be summer before we know it and then there will just be the same battles to fight all over again.

And madwoman, yes we will definitely do Brownies once DD reaches 7; I'm not so sure about Rainbows for now, mainly because it's still early days for DD at school and she is still very tired.

i just don't get it. all the evidence was there last year. perhaps it is to do with the neww teacher, or perhaps the fact that the books are being rearranged and new reading cards have been issued means that school policy is being changed. maybe the reception teacher was constrained by policy and did what she could by giving 2 books at a time.

onesandwich. having read a lot of posts, the fact theat they are doing anything in reception is a positive.

Susan I have been trying to find out about the targets the dcs have in school (I can do this etc) for about a yr, (I was beginning to think it was something the school had made up,) & thanks to your post above I now have some actual useful information! Really pleased things are being moved along for your dc!

Sandwich - you could always try beavers, once dd is 6, like you, I didn't want dd doing too much in reception, but she loves it now she's yr1. 2 yrs can be a long time to wait. (also get in touch now, some groups beavers& brownies) have 2 year waiting lists!

Mrs Shears hope you hear something soon!