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Gifted and talented

Talk to other parents about parenting a gifted child on this forum.

Worried about my meeting with school

159 replies

mrsshears · 14/11/2011 19:25

I have a meeting coming up with my 5yr old dd's school to discuss her recent IQ test results,i'm really not looking forward to it Sad
School have been very defensive and basically have me down as a nightmare pushy mother,despite the fact dd1 went to the same school and i never went in to see the teachers in all her time there,in fact i bet some of the teachers wouldn'nt have even known who i was back then!
I'm really looking for any help or advice anyone has as to how i should handle this meeting,i know they have done some sats papers with dd over the last couple of weeks which whilst i'm glad they are doing something it kind of defeates the object imo as i'm sure they will have been full of things dd has'nt yet been taught (with the exception of the reading one) so i can't imagine she will have done too well,but then the cynic in me thinks that this is why they have done them.
What i want to say is that i just want dd to be challenged at her own level,not pushed but challenged,but i'm unsure as to how i can get this across without making myself look even worse?
On a positive note dd has been moved up a couple of book bands which has already boosted her confidence which i'm really pleased about.
Maybe i'm looking at this meeting far too pessimistically(sorry about my spelling) but after all we have been through i can't help it.
I would be really greatful for any advice any of you have.

OP posts:
blackeyedsanta · 05/12/2011 07:51

good luck mrs s

are you going to ask about how they are going to help her cope with the classroom environment? think that may be the key to getting her ability recognised. it is quite a surprise how much worse they are in schoool than at home.

mrsshears · 05/12/2011 08:16

Hi susan thanks,will report back asap
i take you saw the really helpful advice complete flaming i got over on primary,i should have know better than to post anywhere other than here,as unless you have a gifted dc you just don't get the full picture.
Tbh they have made out on that thread that dd is completely intollerant of any noise or any other dc which is really not the case.
The sensory is a factor i think and we will certainly discuss that,interaction however is not,dd can interact when she wants to and does its just that the other dc don't behave the way she does or have the same interests etc and dd finds that difficult sometimes iyswim

OP posts:
rabbitstew · 05/12/2011 08:20

Maybe if you didn't try to lump all your dd's issues into a "gifted" label it would help. Yes, lots of gifted children also have sensory hypersensitivity and when young can be intolerant of other children their age, but this is NOT the case with all gifted children and therefore cannot be considered part of a "diagnosis" of giftedness, just a comorbidity... These issues therefore need to be dealt with and acknowledged by you and the school as barriers to your dd's learning that will not be solved just by giving your dd more challenging work. Doing the latter without addressing the former will merely lower your dd's self esteem still further. Also, the battles you are having with the school and your reaction to them at home, as you describe it, can only be making the problem worse - just as parents arguing over how to do something is bad for a child's self esteem. Your dd KNOWS how strongly you disagree with the school. That is just as much your fault as the school's, imo, that you have made your unhappiness with the school so transparent and then keep sending your dd off to a school she knows you disapprove of. No wonder she is miserable and underperforming, when under so much stress and hearing so many contradictory opinions.

mrsshears · 05/12/2011 08:33
Biscuit
OP posts:
iggly2 · 05/12/2011 09:16

I am going to remake a point I feel I have made regularly (though with slightly different wording). Some very intelligent children can be sociable, have lots of friends, interact well with others, behave in class and be happy and perform well at school. All children are different and also schools are different.

cory · 05/12/2011 09:34

may I just repeat what I said: it is not that I doubt your dd's giftedness, but it is very much about how you present her case to the school. Having a child who is both gifted and with SN (though no connection in this case) I have learned the hard way what gets results and what doesn't.

First of all, you must be prepared to let bygones be bygones. Go in as if this were a totally new day and make no assumptions based on the past about their unhelpfulness, defensiveness or whatever. If you remind them that they have been unhelpful in the past, you won't get them on your side- which is where you need them.

Secondly, in order to persuade anyone of anything, you must first establish common ground (old rule, taught in rhetoric since Ancient Greece, still works). In this case, the common ground will be that your dd is not performing to the best of her ability at school and that she is overwhelmed and struggles socially. Speak as if it was a natural assumption that you are all there to find a way of helping your dd with these issues.

When it comes to her school work, be prepared to listen to the teacher first: is your dd working above all the other children in the class or are there other gifted children she could join? Could she be stretched within the class?

Then ask your questions: What could be done to help her show her best work at school? How does she seem in class?

Then her sensory difficulties as mentioned on the other thread- this is clearly a biggie as it must be quite overwhelming to the poor little thing. What can be done to help her work if she is overwhelmed by noise and lots of other children? Does the teacher think she is unusually reactive to this, or is it within normal bounds for a girl her age? How can we all support her, I as a parent in how I talk to her and prepare her, the school in her daily work.

rabbitstew · 05/12/2011 09:38

Biscuit all you like. I have a ds who is also somewhat hypersensitive to sounds and who I had to watch last year in reception go from happy and enthusiastic to increasingly disillusioned with his peers and opting out. The school did try to give him more challenging work to get on with (and I saw what they were offering to him, it was stuff he would normally enjoy and find interesting and beetle away at at home for hours) and, unlike with your dd, did acknowledge he was unusually gifted. However, the work often went untouched and he made less and less effort with his peers. I am capable of acknowledging that I made his problems worse by asking him leading questions about what the problem was (eg once he'd mentioned once that the work was too easy, almost every day he got asked what he'd done or learnt at school, was it interesting or boring, why hadn't he done or said this or that in order to get something more interesting etc) and giving him the impression that I could move him away from the school at the drop of a hat if he didn't like it.

This year, I have gone out of my way not to adopt this questioning style, which only elicits the information you are expecting, rather than everything the child might have to say, and the school have been really good at working with him - as a whole person. There is, most definitely, nothing wrong with his social skills - he plays beautifully with older children, can be flexible, has a cheeky sense of humour - he just doesn't choose to use these skills much at school. Basically, he just has a problem with children his age unpredictably changing the rules of a game and has little tolerance of the idea that this may be because they didn't understand the rules in the first place (which are all rather obvious and easy to understand for him), rather than the fact that they are being deliberately very annoying. He has thus chosen to opt out, rather than get annoyed and have to put up with it. The school has been great at setting up playground games at break times which older children in the school help run so that children like my ds can enjoy and join in with their peers, and not have to be the one reminding everyone of the rules all the time. He is coming home happier as a result and, because happier emotionally and socially, much less condemning of the fact (ie less miserable) the work is generally too easy for him, and even offering up items of interest from the day for me to know about - prior to this, he was choosing to read on his own in the playground, or to play on the climbing equipment by himself and was basically doing a very good job of isolating himself, feeling isolated and then feeling generally not part of it. The school have also set up 1-1 sessions with him every week where he feels free to talk, explore his interests, do something a bit different and interesting and is made to feel that he is respected and his abilities are understood. This has also helped hugely. It's not so much about making sure he is being stretched in literacy and maths (which he probably still isn't) as letting him express his thought processes more freely and to feel free to express his feelings in a safe environment. The school is also aware that I think he just doesn't hugely like the noise and moving around that goes on in a KS1 classroom, but neither did my ds1. I don't think his dislike of that goes far enough to opt him out of it, but am aware that he and other children like him will be happier when they reach KS2 and there is a lot less of that (as his db was). Yes, he is a child that would have enjoyed a more "traditional" education, but his life is not being ruined by a more "modern" play-based one - not if I don't let him think that. He is, generally, quite a happy boy this year.

On another note, I have several relatives (and a dh) who were moved out of their school year to work with older children and/or were moved on full fee scholarships into private schools. All but one were then held back for a couple of years in scholarship classes at the end of primary or prep school so that they could be returned to classes with their peers. Mostly, the people this was done to were OK with the decision, although felt that they missed out in terms of sport and other non-academic subjects as a result and it obviously didn't prevent them feeling different and a little bit separate to be put in with older children - so mixed feelings on whether it was a good idea. As for the relative who was never returned to classes with his peers, who was generally a fairly introverted personality, he bitterly resents his mother for fussing and fussing, moving him to a new school and always banging on about his intellect. He ended up at university several years younger than his peers, miserable and bitter. He felt he was treated as a brain, not as a human being with social and emotional needs which should have outweighed his academic needs. I wouldn't want that to happen to any of my children.

Yes, it is difficult to get the balance right and you probably never will, but please don't let the school get away with thinking they can make you happy/shut you up by giving your dd free reading books and tricky maths homework, which is probably what you will get if you just tell them you have discovered she is gifted and that therefore they obviously aren't stretching her enough. And please don't let your dd think you feel her time is being wasted at school and she only does worthwhile stuff at home, because in my experience it is quite easy to pass that feeling on to your children without meaning to and make them unnecessarily negative and unhappy at school.

cory · 05/12/2011 09:42

On the other thread, you also mentioned that she has difficulty playing with other children at their level and often only wants to play on her terms, as she finds the other children too childish. You suggested moving her up 2 years as she will then get less childish playmates.

Tbh I am not sure this would be a solution: ime 7yos are often even more intolerant of someone who wants to make all the rules, and particularly if this is a younger child. She would end up in a class where the others expect far more social maturity because they are older and expectations consequently higher.

This is where some posters suggested SEN- I have no idea and wouldn't want to diagnose over the internet.

But in a sense I think you are stuck between seeing it as SEN/immaturity (=something she needs support with) or as bossiness (=something she needs to be taught to control).

Giftedness doesn't have to lead to social inflexibility: some of the most socially flexible people I have known were clearly highly gifted at school and went on to show their giftedness in subsequent careers.

iggly2 · 05/12/2011 10:16

I read the other thread and admit I thought some of the posts were really good Blush. I think really focus on her settling and performing better at school and not worry about the differentiation right now. The maths in the school seems to be taught at a high level (6-7 year olds) and I think you mention she is performing at a 7 year old level in a 1-2-1 assessment (so very unlikely to perform like that in a school environment). She also came home with work not completed. I would look to the school for suggestions on what can be done to increase her performance there. At home if she needs to gain confidence you could do educational games etc with her.

IndigoBell · 05/12/2011 10:37

Can I also say something you don't want to hear.

Hypercaucus can be cured by Auditory Integration Training.

Before my DS did AIT he used to walk out of class up to 5 times a day, and was therefore understandably not achieving very well.

Now he's top of the class in every subject.... Because he can actually stay in class and show them what he can do.

With hypercaucus class will actually be painful to your DD.

seeker · 05/12/2011 10:42

And do please keep an open mind- loads of people have shared their knowledge and experience. And I saw no flaming. What I did see was a little impatience because you didn't seem to think that anyone else's point of view might relevant to your situation, or that there could be any other interpretation of the facts as you presented them to yours.

adoptmama · 05/12/2011 12:12

One recommendation I've found that works great with DD in terms of finding out how she is feeling about school without asking leading questions (which often result in them saying what they think you want to hear or shutting down) is to adopt a 'reflecting back technique (we got this from play therapy). At its most basic, you are simply repeating back or paraphrasing what child said, so they say "it was boring" you reflect back "it was boring at school today" or "you didn't find school interesting" as this confirms to child you are hearing what they say and are not judging it. I have found it very good it getting DD to clarify and open up what she is feeling (not just about school).

seeker · 05/12/2011 12:15

There's also the "tell me two good things and two bad things that happened at school today" technique.

iggly2 · 05/12/2011 13:10

Certainly read up about hypercaucus and maybe concentrate on anything that may help if she suffers from it.

iggly2 · 05/12/2011 13:15

DS and myself can not manage fireworks well or balloons popping (DS used to vomit if washing machine was on, scream at hand dryers etc-he is fine with these now). I cannot concentrate if music/noise is around.

iggly2 · 05/12/2011 13:28

Can school compromise with slightly more difficult homework but setting work she can manage well in class pending resolution/management of other issues.

adoptmama · 05/12/2011 14:55

@ iggly will also be looking this hypercaucus up, thanks. DD is very sensitive, especially to noise. Always put it down to an institutionalisation issue primarily although crossed my mind more than once it might be related to 'giftedness'. Psych. thinks many of her sensitivites are anxiety related and post-insti issues. She has long had issues of great fear with noises and would running in terror from public bathrooms over handdryers. Also big, big problems with odours too. Can you recommend any good initial sources of info?
thanks

iggly2 · 05/12/2011 15:57

IndigoBell knows more than me! It was the first time I had heard of it when she posted about it Smile.

iggly2 · 05/12/2011 15:58

I do not use the term gifted for DS.

onesandwichshort · 05/12/2011 16:23

adoptmama - oh goodness, yes, the hand-dryers. DD too!

madwomanintheattic · 05/12/2011 16:30

the noise thing is frighteningly common. hand dryers seem to be a particular trigger, although dd2 has issues with all suddenish noises like that (she refused point blank to use 'magic toilets' for 3 years) but she seems to cope in the classroom ok.

i'm trying to catch up though, mrss. didn't see the other thread, i don't think... so will have to read back. (adoptmama - dd2 is also extremely hypersensitive to smells)

it is interesting. we put a lot of the sensory quirks down to her cp (just being generally buggered in the brain department) but i guess she may have had all of the sensory issues even without the brain damage. huh.

she used to scream blue murder in sainsburys before she was verbal and manage to communicate that it was the lights. one pair of sunnies later and voila - grocery shopping in peace.

i wonder.... how would you tell the cause? does it even matter?

onesandwichshort · 05/12/2011 16:46

Madwoman - I would also say does it matter, except that DD is currently in a play-based (and therefore to her ears noisy and chaotic) reception classroom of 30 and so perhaps underachieving and - perhaps more importantly - in playtime with 120 children which she describes as 'too noisy to play games'.

I can't work out whether she will get used to it as has been suggested to us, or whether we should have chosen another school. We went for local over small; I'm starting to think it iwas a big mistake.

Adoptmama - NAGC have a factsheet on sensitivities and giftedness, but it mostly says 'it's pretty common' and not a whole heap more that is useful. But I will reread it and see if there is anything which might help.

madwomanintheattic · 05/12/2011 17:01

oh Blush i meant does the cause matter for dd2 really, not does it matter if she has the issue? (apols if i confused you!)

dd2 is extremely sensitive to all sorts of things, but the noise doesn't seem to be affecting her in the classroom any longer (we had huge problems at nursery, but did some desensitisation stuff) - clearly if it is affecting the child in the classroom, then it does matter. Blush it was just the cause i was fussing over!

blee, that makes no sense at all! sorry! can you link to the nagc factsheet on sensitivities? might be interesting. not sure if i've seen it.

seeker · 05/12/2011 17:19

My resolutely non-gifted children were both very sensitive to noise- the automatic loos and those loud hand dryers were a nightmare. And And they were both well over 8 before they could enjoy fireworks. And dd was very apprehensive when she went to her first rock concert at 15 and wore earplugs.

Not everything is a syndrome!

Oh, and reception classes in my experience aren't noisy and chaotic- or at least not all the time- they are often calm and purposeful.

madwomanintheattic · 05/12/2011 17:30

oh quite. we had just always assumed it was the cp as she has lots of retained reflexes and the noise thing triggered her moro. didn't really question it. so i suppose it isn't the actual trigger, it was the response for dd2. she still startles into a moro at loud noises, which can make her fall over. but is fine with hand dryers and stuff now, as long as she knows the sound is coming. no issues with classroom noise. (60 in her yr r classroom, but obv less now)

just interesting to ponder it as a comorbid of being more able instead of the cp, lol.

we did ponder as/asd as a comorbid for the cp as well, at one point. Grin

ds1 has similar-ish issues wrt sensory. and profs have had ongoing discussions re more able/ as/asd. Grin i would def say his sensory stuff is more spectrum linked, whereas dd2's isn't. and he does have an issue wrt classrooms, but no idea whether it's just noise or general distractions.

there was another thread the other day about how to untangle it all. in kids with issues of one sort or another it's virtually impossible.