I am sat here wondering how people justify NOT giving vaccinations to their children when there are children in the world that are dying because they can't get them

[RTKangaMummy]

I am sat here wondering how people justify NOT giving vaccinations to their children when there are children in the world that are dying because they can't get them

Why do people in USA and Europe not realise how fortunate their children are to be given the opertunity to have vaccinations

And then they don't give them

There are children in the world dying cos they can't have them

I DO REALISE we are talking about different diseases

But it all seems wrong to me

.

Nope, Sorry. Didn't work. I typed 'Trevor Gunn' and 'herd immunity' for loads of research which casts doubt on the premise.

Good God, not this old chestnut again?

Told you RTKM!

Also worth noting that during recent outbursts of measles, the vaccinated were catching it too.

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It makes me sad and scared spidermama, we should be greatfull we are given the choice in these things and as always we should do our best to protect our children, which ineviatable we will diagree with others on.
On this note Goodnight
and RTKM sorry if I turned you thread into a MMR debate
a highly emotive subject

Sorry, I'd really rather do my own research than take someone else's word for it. I see Trevor Gunn has a degree in a biochemistry and is a homeopath. Why should I think he knows more than someone with public health training? All the major research articles are publically available, if you want to make an informed choice read the originals. I did, and they were very thought provoking. What is really needed here is research on autism, not on MMR, and it IMO is a huge pity that so much money and effort has been so misdirected.

Why??? easy.

DS1.

Try living with a child- who courtesy of a vaccination - will never grow up to live independently.

Then have 2 more children and decide whether or not to give them said same vaccinations.

It's a no brainer in our family.

BTW my mum is deaf in one from measles, but still entirely agrees with her secoond and third grandsons having no vaccinations at all.

When ds1 was born she was (like me at the time) pro vaccination.

She isn't anymore.

Noka - what did you think of the Colombia paper? (Hornig et al 2005) - that was pretty danmning re autism and thimerosal.

hmb- I agree with you re "vaccines do no good" but equallly I hate the "vaccines never do any harm" argument.

Personally I still recommend the neudstadter book because he is very careful about what he says (both in termns of how dangerous the diseases can be, and how reliable and dangerous the vaccinations are).

jimjams what is 'the neudstadter book'? please.

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He talks about the pros and cons of vaccinating for each jab. It's a little out of date now (new jabs added) and American but gives veyr clear risk/benefit ratio. he's very careful about claims made and is very clear about risks on both sides. A very balanced book.

Basically the only jab I'm nervous about not having given the kids is tetanus. Enough so that if someone makes me a thimerosal free single tetanus jab I'll give it to them. I could be waiting a while!

try again

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It's passed the tamum test Socci Seriously it is good. It's properly controlled etc. It was shortly after its publication that the DoH decided that hmm maybe chucking mercury into babies wasn't such a good idea after all (sorry actually they didn't-they continued to say it was perfectly safe and only a "theoretical" risk- my arse come and meet ds1 and they can shove their theoreticla business wherever they like). I've never managed to plough through the WHO publications, but I think it was following the Hornig paper that they suggested only using thimerosal where absolutely necessary (which of course it never is).

Thanks for that JJ

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Should point out of course that Hornig et al looked at mice and we're talking humans, but hmmm as someone with an autistic child with a paternal history of autoimmunity and probable dodgy glutamate receptors in the brain and - well the obvious explanation is provided by this paper. So far (touch wood as ds3 is approaching 6 months so soon we'll "know" 100%) the 2 who are OK haven't come into contact with thimerosal (lucky escape in ds2's case) are OK. The one who has is screwed.

Jimjams the new 8,12,16 wk jab has no mercury in itit, is this a result of that paper? All three of mine had these but number 3 had the new style and had no reaction at all, other than the inital needle prick.

I had the pleasure of reading the transcript Socci. I don't watch these things anynmore as I usually want to put my foot through the TV within minutes. it's the same old, same old misrepresentations, boring old crap. Lazy TV. I knew MadDrFitzpatrick would be on (he was) and bloody Evan harris MP who has made it impossible for me to vote LibDem ever agin (think I voted ofr the stupid git years ago as well). I think he was on. I don't know whether these people are just stupid or reading different papers to me bt they seem to be making a whole load of assumptions that aren't possible from them (like MMR is defintely safe for 100% of people). And in the meatime you have the voices saying 'err no-one's suggestng all autism is caused by MMR, only hmm maybe 7%- won't be picked up in these studies" and no-ones listening.

Thimerosal is much bigger in the States- and more and more evidence is gathering against it. I suspect its a far bigger problem tbh.

Xena- it was introduced in Aus in 1999, and thimerosal began to be phased out from the States sooon after (in paediatric jabs this is). The UK clung to these jabs until publication of this paper (although apprently this was just a conicincence and they had to change the jab because the OPV was suddenly so dagerous- yeah I smell bullsh*t).

When then paper was published I was overjpyed as I thought that FINALLY we would get some recogntion for what ahppened to ds1, I didnb;t want compensation- just recognition- so maybe what would be best for ds2 and ds3 could be discussed. Instead the paper was swept under the carpet- so now I don't care and I don't wait for any recognition. I read the stuff myself, I know our family hisotry and I make the decisions.

Xena- I won't giive the new jab I don't want to give a 5 in 1. I would like to give a single tetanus, but that was phased out for the under 10's and contained thimerosal anyway.

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I feel so torn in this whole area for fear of what the consequenses are if I don't immunise my children and also if the majority don't immunise their children and also for the possible cause of immunising, as I said before I completly support those who don't immunise when there is a family history of 'reactions' to immunisations who those who have developmental problems etc. But what about those are first instances (i.e no history/ seemingly normal development)????
I'm sorry that you have had no acknowlegement for what happened to your son.