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I am sat here wondering how people justify NOT giving vaccinations to their children when there are children in the world that are dying because they can't get them

168 replies

RTKangaMummy · 02/07/2005 19:56

I am sat here wondering how people justify NOT giving vaccinations to their children when there are children in the world that are dying because they can't get them

Why do people in USA and Europe not realise how fortunate their children are to be given the opertunity to have vaccinations

And then they don't give them

There are children in the world dying cos they can't have them

I DO REALISE we are talking about different diseases

But it all seems wrong to me

.

OP posts:
Xena · 02/07/2005 21:51

No need for angry it seems civilised, I just felt that as a promoter of the MMR Tony Blair should have said 'Of course Leo has had it' where as DH thinks that he has every right to keep it quite and private.

expatinscotland · 02/07/2005 21:53

Not me, Xena. The US has been giving the triple jab for 37 years w/o incident or 'scares', so I had no qualms about it at all whatsoever. I had it myself twice. There, it's mandatory to vaccinate all children entering public school (most fee-paying ones require it as well), except those who have a family history of reactions. Why? B/c the right of society is seen as greater than the right of the individual. Too many unvaccinated persons pose a threat to public health. That's their view at least. You're perfectly free not to vaccinate your kids, you'll probably have to home school them, however. You have to be vaccinated to enter a public university and/or the military as well. Or to emigrate to the US.

I spent a lot of time in developing nations where childhood diseases that could be prevented killed children, and that image stuck with me.

My parents were born pre-vaccines, and suffered all the illnesses. My mom is deaf in one ear from measles, but considered herself lucky, 3 of her classmates died that year.

I ride the bus with a fellow who is completely blind and deaf in one ear from measles that went into meningitis.

I was grateful my child was born in a place where vaccines are available to her.

Socci · 02/07/2005 21:53

Message withdrawn

spidermama · 02/07/2005 21:53

I took DH to Trevor Nunn to steel his waivering nerve and he came out convinced we were doing the right thing in refusing the vaccinations. Like Caligula though, I almost wish I could just swallow the party line and go ahead with the jabs. It would be so much easier.

spidermama · 02/07/2005 21:54

Another problem with the research is that they don't check far enough into the future for 'adverse reactions'.

RTKangaMummy · 02/07/2005 21:55

ok sorry xena

am leaving this thread as it goes on to mmr

OP posts:
Heathcliffscathy · 02/07/2005 21:55

hmb, check this out?

here

happymerryberries · 02/07/2005 21:57

Read it before, after one of the other (many, many other) vaccination debates on MN.

Must go away, must go to bed!

Heathcliffscathy · 02/07/2005 21:58

ok, but before you do, what did you think of it? not over emotive, seems to ask questions that aren't answered by WHO or anyone else?

spidermama · 02/07/2005 21:59

I was, of course, about to summarise everything in that link soph (ahem!) but was too long to post.

Heathcliffscathy · 02/07/2005 22:00
Grin
HappyHuggy · 02/07/2005 22:04

Oh Kanga, i feel sorry for you.

You started this thread out of emotion, we've all donr it. Dont worry

xxxx

happymerryberries · 02/07/2005 22:04

OK, this realy is my last post.

Before I say anything, I feel it is everyones right to make the best choice for their own child, for their child in their circumstances. I have no probelm with other people making different decisions to me. What other people choose to do isn't any of my buisness.

My only beef is when people (Always say thank you was the best!) state baldly that vaccination does no good at all. I don;'t think that it is right in every case. Other MN far more eloquent that I have posted on this and I'll not argure with them. But it isn't a huge great big , 'your doctor hates you and wants to kill you all to make money' thing either. Anti publications can cherry pick with the best of them (and I know that pro does too).

And now I will go to bed!

Xena · 02/07/2005 22:05

I find it a very 'scary area'. My DD1 had menigitis and it was the most scariest experience of my life, but I do understand other parents who have a child/ another family memeber with autism or vacination affected health will be equally worried.

nooka · 02/07/2005 22:07

Measles is one of the biggest killers in the world, so I don't think it's an unreasonable connection to make. And yes, malnutrician is an even bigger one, but the combination is particularly deadly. Vaccination would certainly save lives.

As hmb said, smallpox was wiped out, and there are still high hopes to wipe out polio through mass vaccination. TB was largely brought under control by BCG (along with antibiotics). Rubella was the cause of many children being severely damaged, and that's pretty rare now (a little brother or sister of mine would be around now if my family hadn't all caught rubella when my mother was pregant). I know a couple of people who had polio in the last great epidemic and have been in a wheelchair for the rest of their lives - when did we last have a polio epedimic? I have a friend who is deaf as the result of measles, and there was an outbreak of measles in Dublin last time their immunisation rates dropped, two children died.

The WHO spends a huge amount of money and effort with immunisation programmes around the world - what would be in it for them if it was all some sort of conspiracy?

If you really want to understand the facts you need to read all of the research papers and understand how to interpret them. Yes, the NHS and the DoH haven't done the best marketing job, but bear in mind that The Informed Parent, What Doctor's Don't Tell You and JABS are pressure groups with a particular message to tell.

btw the latest research on autism suggests that it may be possible in future to be able to identify children in early infancy.

Of course making the choice as a parent is very difficult, because there are risks involved, and statistics don't help tell you if it might happen to your child.

I do think we don't realise how lucky we are in many ways around the things we take for granted (including making choices).

Phew! rant over, and like hmb, I will go away now.

Xena · 02/07/2005 22:10

I also think (but know this is not the case) that if every child who is not at risk from vacine damage was vacinated then the risk of an out break of any of those dieases would be minimal therefore the un-vaccinate children would also be at much less risk of catching the virus/bacteria. IYKWIM

spidermama · 02/07/2005 22:10

You're right hmb as I know how upset i get when my stance is attacked aggressively, as it so often is.
We're all doing our very best for our children but those who choose NOT to vaccinated are freely described in the media as irresponsible and foolish and even held to account for putting the lives of others at risk.

spidermama · 02/07/2005 22:11

For the record, most recorded incidences of polio in the past decade have come FROM the live vaccine itself.

Heathcliffscathy · 02/07/2005 22:12

absolutely hmb cherry picking and aggression and blanket condemenation on either side are hateful.

Socci · 02/07/2005 22:12

Message withdrawn

nooka · 02/07/2005 22:15

Xena,
You are right. It's called the herd effect. You need a certain amount of people to be able to catch the disease in order for it to spread. The public health angle is that if you vaccinate enough people you will protect the whole population including those with compramised immune systems who can't be vaccinated.

Xena · 02/07/2005 22:19

It does worry me though, DD1 had meningitis at 8mths and DD2 is still to young to have the mmr. So if there is an outbreak then she will be at risk, the rate of children who are vaccinated in our area is one of the UKs lowest.

Socci · 02/07/2005 22:20

Message withdrawn

spidermama · 02/07/2005 22:21

Don't know if this'll work. First attempt to do link but Trevor Gunn says it far better than Iever could so if you're serious about researching the notion of herd immunity click here:

\link{https://www.childbirthsolutions.com/ articles/postpartum/dispelling2/index.php}

Heathcliffscathy · 02/07/2005 22:21

here

we

go