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Problem/Dependent Drinkers and Alcoholics (recovering or active) Support IV

1000 replies

lackaDAISYcal · 07/04/2008 00:07

Smile
OP posts:
Lizzie07 · 21/04/2008 14:19

Hello all, I wondered if someone could help me with something?

My friend has just been to the doctors and had a very scary chat - he has a lot of health problems and the biggest contributor seems to be alcohol. He drinks and awful lot and me and hubby have been trying to encourage him to stop drinking at least part of the week for some time but he finds this hard so does sometimes cut down. He said his liver test was really frightening and something in the test had to be under 65 but his was 320 - I don't know what that means but it is obviously scary.

He tells me that the doctor told him not to stop drinking as his body would go into a fit, she apparently told him to have 2 large glasses of red wine a day but to stop the cider/beer and gin. I am not quite sure I believe this personally as I thought if your liver was that bad the best thing would be to just stop for a period of time and let it re-generate itself. I told him to go and buy some milk thistle as I read on the net that this was good for livers but again is there any point him taking it if he is going to carry on drinking 2/3rd of a bottle of red wine a night?

Any helpful advise would be gratefully appreciated.

Thanks

BrassicMonkey · 21/04/2008 14:21

D'you think it's to do with alcohol induced paranoia teasle?

I used to do odd things, especially when I was in denial about it. Things like panicing because someone is buzzing the flat and I'm not actually expecting anyone, or refusing to answer the phone if the number was withheld. I had no reason to be afraid, so I think it was because I was so ashamed and felt so guilty all the time, but couldn't let my mind explore what I was ashamed and guilty about.

How ironic that alcohol, which is always represented in adverts by people being sociable and outgoing, turned me into a jibbering recluse

BrassicMonkey · 21/04/2008 14:26

Lizzie, alcohol withdrawal can be really dangerous and fits are possible. Is that all his doctor has advised though? Just to cut down to 2 large glasses a night?

Do you mean he's drinking 2 or 3 bottles each night or 2/3 of a bottle? If it's 2/3 then tbh I'd be surprised if he'd have a fit from stopping. I don't know how much you have to be drinking to be in danger of serious withdrawal symptoms though. He might not have told you the full extent of his problem though.

I don't know anything about LFTs btw. I hope he gets some proper help.

Lizzie07 · 21/04/2008 14:54

Thanks Brassic Monkey - I didn't know that about the fitting, do you think doctor is correct then? Will he have to decrease slowly over a period of time?

He currently drinks about 4 pints a night plus about 6-9 pub measures of Gin - maybe more actually.... and will easily have more at the weekend, I have seem him easily drink a bottle of gin on top of 4 pints...

Doctor told him to cut down to 2 glasses of wine a night. She said they were to be normal glasses though not huge but even a large glass in a pub is 250ml and two of those is about two thirds of a bottle. I am just a bit concerned that he will still be having 6 units a night on 2 large glasses of wine which is still well over 40 units per week.

Thanks,

BrassicMonkey · 21/04/2008 15:00

It sounds like he's got a big problem Lizzie. A bottle of gin, plus 4 pints is about 36 units. I think his GP is right and he would definitely be in danger of serious withdrawal symptoms if he was just to stop. It's not that helpful for her to just suggest that he drinks 2 large glasses a night though. He needs proper support to either reduce gradually and safely, or do a medical detox IMO.

Does he accept that he's got a problem?

Iworryalot · 21/04/2008 15:02

Also will he be abel to stop after having 2 glasses of wine , very hard to do if you have an addiction with alcohol

BrassicMonkey · 21/04/2008 15:09

I've just re-read your first post Lizzie, and I understand what you mean now about 2/3rds of a bottle of wine. I thought you meant that that's the extent of his problem, rather than what his GP has recommended he cut down to - I've never been a wine drinker. Sorry I misunderstood you.

If he was honest with his GP about what he drinks then I'm shocked that she has suggested this. I'm sure it's dangerous to reduce that drastically. From what you say, he's drinking about 18 units a night easily and she's telling him to go down to 6!!?! Poor guy! I don't think he's going to cope emotionally or physically with that.

How is he doing so far?

gerbrajess · 21/04/2008 16:05

Wow - busy thread!
Bottlebin - well done for posting! I'm with the majority here - it will be quite a bit easier I think if you and your DP try to stop together...I know I'd struggle not to drink if my DP was sitting next to me drinking!

Lizzie it sounds like your friend really is having a tough time - how lucky is he he has friends like you to support him...

Good luck

Kokeshi - flat pack furniture - NIGHTMARE! I tried to put a bench together once and it turned out back to front!

Hope everyone's having a good day with first days back at school etc.

Gerbra x

BrassicMonkey · 21/04/2008 16:29

DS got off to school fine this morning gerbra. I was bloody knackered as only had 3 hours sleep, it's nice to have a bit of peace and quiet during the day again though.

How are you doing today?

gerbrajess · 21/04/2008 17:42

Oh Brassic - hope you get a bit more sleep tonight!

After no work at the start of the day, work came in so have been fairly busy, fitting in some painting around it - busy bee!

I'm prepared for a drink-free evening tonight. Last one I did was last Thursday and that went okay...and am still SMOKE FREE

I won't pop back until tomorrow now as sadly my mumsnet activity has gone hand in hand with a glass (bottle) of wine so I want to steer clear of triggers tonight (not sure what I'll feel the withdrawal from most!).

Have a good evening everyone ...
Gerbra x

thornrose · 21/04/2008 17:48

I came on this thread some time ago and then just carried on drinking too much as normal and stepped away from the thread!!
I am going to have an alcohol free night tonight for the first time in ages. I am already feeling a bit anxious and I am really tempted to go to the shop on pretext of buying milk then getting a bottle of wine! But I really want to stay strong.
From past experience if I manage 2 or 3 days alcohol free I can break the cycle and start enjoying the feeling of being teetotal.

kokeshi · 21/04/2008 17:56

Bottlebin, I just wanted to address a couple of things you mentioned previously. The thing about counselling, yeah, it doesn't work for a lot of people because talking therapy in itself without reaching any conclusions or getting to the roots of the behaviour is actually quite dangerous. What's the point in disinterring all of this stuff if it's just going to be swimming around your conscious thought?

For any deep rooted issues, traumas, I would suggest going to see a GP and getting a referral to a psychiatrist who could then refer you on to a relevant trained therapist. There are a lot of 'counsellors' out there these days who do more harm than good.

That's the other thing bottlebin, I agree with what everyone says about anti-depressants and alcohol, they're just not compatible. Take it a wee step at time. After a while of abstaining from drink then you'll feel such a difference in your outlook anyway. I can guarantee that.

I would also say go to a GP for a general health check because drinking affects absolutely every organ in the body and it's not always obvious from the outside. I would say though in response to Lizzie that if your friends LFTs (I am assuming the numbers you're quoting are gamma GTs) are that high there is already significant inflammation of his liver. If this becomes cirrhotic then he's on his way out, there's no going back from a liver this badly damaged. BUT, he can arrest only if he stops drinking. Total abstinence should really only be advised I think for someone with this serious a problem.

Is he perhaps only telling you half the story? What he says about not stopping abruptly is true, the medics will tell you to either stabilise your intake or remain at the same level, but usually this is followed by a medical detox and/or rehab. He may like the sound of stabilising the addiction but not be ready to do the giving up part, therefore its easy to not tell you the whole truth. Either that or he's lied to his doctor and minimised the problem anyway. It sounds like he's still in a bit of denial. By the way, when my GGTs where up around this level, I became jaundiced and bloated pretty soon after so he won't be able to carry this on indefinitely no matter how much he's kidding himself. The other thing I had was acute pancreatitis, and he'll know all about that if he does get it.

However, the decision has to come down to him . I know how frustrating it is to watch an alcoholic slowly killing themselves but you sound like a good friend. He's lucky to have you. If you can be there to support him without affecting your own life too much then that's probably the best thing you can do for him right now. You could also contact Al Anon to seek support for yourself.

Welcome back hairybiker!

Fio I did realise it was you but I thought you may be trying to post incognito so I didn't want to make you searchable on here.

Lizzie07 · 21/04/2008 18:03

Hi, thanks again for your responses.

I think he was reasonably honest with the doctor and I think he is pretty honest with us but I also think there are things he hasn't told either of us. I can only judge what he drinks from what we have seen as he is hubby's best friend and our children are the same age and play a lot - he is often at our house.

For instance he has very strong cider which are about 8 or 9% and he might have 3 or 4 supersize cans which in his mind he is equating that to being the same as 3 or 4 pints a night but it is probably more? Don't know. Then he will start on the gin which he will drink neat and often doesn't put ice in it as that waters down the gin. Me and hubby don't touch gin so he brings his own round and there are often bottles in our fridge, I have often seen him bring a full bottle round only to find it empty the next morning. On occasions I will have a tally up in my head what he has had as I am terrified when he says he will drive our kids somewhere or take my daughter to school as he passes it on the way to his son's school, I keep having to make excuses as I know that he has had far too much to be driving 8 hours later, let alone with my daughter in the car.

He told the doctor that he drank 4 pints a night which she said was 85 units a week, she then told him to be honest with her and he admitted to her that he also had a couple of home measures of gin, she said to him so then it's 85 plus then but they didn't actually add it up between them and from my own workings out I reckon its more like 20 - 25 units a night which is 140+ units per week.

He has been to the shops and bought 1 bottle of red and 4 cans of lower alchohol lager which is not low alchohol but it will be normal lager as opposed to the super strength stuff, he has texted me to say that he doesn't feel like any at the moment but he will have either 2 cans of lager OR 2 glasses of the wine. It is only day one so we shall see how he gets on this week. The doctor said she could send him for alchohol counselling but he declined and she also said she wanted to see him in 2 weeks to redo the liver test etc.

Any advice would be great as hubby and I are very worried and have been suspicious for some time that it is getting out of hand a bit as although hubby likes a drink he will simply have the 4 cans when his friend comes round and friend is then drinking the gin on his own which I think he finds quite difficult. Also hubby doesn't drink during the week much so his friend never seems to want to stay anymore and is allways rushing off home at about 7pm and I think it's because he realises his drinking doesn't match ours and he feels uncomfortable, which is a real shame.

Anyway will keep you posted.

Lizzie07 · 21/04/2008 18:14

Thanks Kokeshi, sorry only read your post after I had written mine.

One other thing I remembered the doctor said to him that he wanted to make 38 years old he had to seriously sort himself out she said the state he was in healthwise would mean he wouldn't see another year.

His liver is not the only problem she is testing him for diabetes, he briefly mentioned a heart scan, he has high blood pressure.

It seems to me that she has just sent him away shocked and frightened and he is going to spend the next two weeks panicking. What I am annoyed also about is that he had these tests done 5 months ago and the surgery wrote to him and told him to come in but he put his head in the sand and ignored it and the doctors didn't follow it up!!!

In order to get him to go I have been telling him that it can't that bad as if it was the doctors would be contacting him and they would have insisted he go in. I feel pleased that he went but very guilty for making him think it was all going to be okay....

oiFoiF · 21/04/2008 18:20

I thought they could prescribe medication to help people this dependant come off alcohol without having such awful side effects?

and thanks kokeshi. I have posted on here incognito aswellah well

justwaterformethanks · 21/04/2008 18:39

Hi folks ive come back to the fold after a few months of kidding myself and drinking copious amounts of wine , i had a bit of a health scare a few weeks back and basically used it as an excuse to drink too much ( theres rational thought for you!) ,anyway ive got back up to the bottle a night mark so ive come back to say tonight im not going to drink

kokeshi · 21/04/2008 18:51

NAh, he's lying or misundestanding somewhere. A GP wouldn't advise someone with liver damage to keep drinking, that's absurd. Especially if he's already been told he won't see 38! Think of the hippocratic oath: first do no harm. Telling an alcoholic that they can drink is basically sending them to an early grave.

If he has said he doesn;t want to give up, then the only thing the doctor can suggest is to cut down. You can't force someone into sobriety and it will become a damage limitation exercise until such time as your friend realises the gravity of his alcoholism.

By the way, although I think your heart is in the right place with tip-toeing around him, I think allowing him to drink in your house is possibly enabling him. Firstly in his own mind to think that his drinking is acceptable and secondly that you're compromising your own feelings. Absolutely be honest with him about the driving. It's an unpalatable truth sure, but when all of our drinking opportunities are reduced, again it will mean that we have to look seriously at the problem. Sometimes we need to get worse before we get better and he may 'go underground' with it. But, as long as he has a place to drink that normalises it then he's less likely to try and sort it out. Again you seem like a lovely friend but just don;t compromise yourself in this. You'll be doing him no favours in the long term. Please contact Al Anon for some concrete advice on how to go about dealing with this for all of your sakes.

GPs prefer to refer alcoholics on to a specialised addictions service so may be reluctant to prescribe Librium for withdrawals as it could be abused. This is when the GP may recommend cutting down or stabilising the addiction - as a short term measure. If he really can't stop drinking alone then a drug like Antabuse is very effective as a deterrent. Again, they'll make sure the patient is absolutely ready to stop because drinking on either of these drugs is dangerous.

Lizzie, stay with us though if it helps. I was a 'hopeless case' in the eyes of quite a few doctors but I'm in recovery and haven't lifted a drink for quite a while. I had to reach my own rock bottom first and that meant the loss of most of my friends and family. We have a fab relationship now, and I'm really glad they pulled back when they did.

kokeshi · 21/04/2008 18:52

Welcome abck justwater, good to see you again. I hope you're OK.

lackaDAISYcal · 21/04/2008 18:56

Just a quick hello from me

hi to all the newbies. You have come to a very lovely, friendly and supportive place. Keep posting and I'll hopefully catch up soon.

Wow the thread is moving quickly again. good to see PurpleOne back among us.

I'm continuing to exercise my "one or two units, once or twice a week" by having one of those diddy little bottles of wine on a Saturday night. I'm determined to keep it to that level after I've had this baby.

I had a bit of a scare yesterday and thought I was miscarrying again as I had awful pains all day. My dating scan this morning revealed that my pea is doing just fine and that the pains are most likely the result of a UTI.

I'm lurking a lot, by the way, just not posting.

Take Care

OP posts:
thornrose · 21/04/2008 18:57

Justwater, I posted earlier to say exact same thing. But my bottle a night recently started leaving me wanting just another glass, very scary! I'm still fighting the urge to run to the shop, it's so hard. This will be first night off drinking for a long time.

kokeshi · 21/04/2008 19:19

Glad to see you're still with us daisy and so pleased the 'pea' is thriving.

Welcome back to thornrose too

thornrose · 21/04/2008 19:25

I have checked my purse to see if I have enough cash to buy wine, I have asked my dd if she wanted to pop to the shop for some sweets, she asked me "are you going to get a bottle of wine mummy?". I have put the purse away, I am going to be strong.

Bottlebin · 21/04/2008 19:52

Well done thornrose.

Bottlebin · 21/04/2008 19:59

So what will happen if we go to the Doctors?

Am I foolish to worry about having it on our records, will we have difficulty getting a mortgage in the future?

Had a really, really bad half hour but it's odd how once I knew I really wasn't going to drink it was much easier.

justwaterformethanks · 21/04/2008 20:10

Thornrose its tough isnt it , when i gave up a while back ,the first couple of days were difficult but it did get easier ,its just such a massive habit isnt it , think of the money youll save and the inches off your waistline

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