MMR

[Mog]

I know this has been covered before but it was before my time on mumsnet. At the risk of boring people, yes or no to the MMR jab?

YPUK You say,
malaria: if you go to any malaria prone country, take 10g (grams NOT milligrams) of vitamin C, in the form of sodium ascorbate (solgar do one here in UK) from about 2 weeks before you go until 2 weeks after you come back. this will boost your immune system and you're less likely to get malaria than if you take those prophylactic drugs to which most mosquitos are immune to it.
hth
I am facinated to know how this works, could you explain please. Excess amounts of vitamin c are passes out of the body in the urine. The body takes what it needs and the rest is excreted. I know this to be the case, not because I have swallowed the 'propaganda' of the pharmaceutical industry (as you might put it). I know because I have carried out the experiment that tests this, and have seen the results with my own eyes.

So I am interested. How does it work?

Angelmouse - I am sorry if my last comment to you was a little sharp as I know you were just giving advice. I don?t quite know why I defended my hv so passionately - I think I was feeling pretty hormonal yesterday!! She is good, and worth listening to, but you didn?t deserve such a passionate reply after you had just been giving me advice.
Just to let you know- I did go away and do more research and am pleased that I did it. I have spent a lot of time focussing on the reasons no to vaccinate as I felt that I knew all the resons why it was a good idea and needed to look at the other side to make sure I really knew what I was doing. Thank you for convincing me. I am going ahead with it despite the concerns and feel much more aware of what I am getting the family involved in. I am a little more anxious now but at the same time I feel that I have done my homework and are not concerned that I am going into this blindly!
I am so sorry to hear you had a lousy hv. After my bad experiences with midwives in our area, I can sympathise when the helathcare in your area is not as good as it could be - very frustrating. At least you are growing out of her now!!

YPUK - you didn?t respond to my last comment. I meant what I said and still feel your postings were unnecessarily personal but don?t want to fall out over it! I see from your postings since that you are still fired up over this subject and it is obviously something you feel passionate about. I guess we all do. After all we are talking about our actions directly affecting our children?s health in potentially huge ways and that is a big deal.

Just so you know, I have read all of your points carefully and have taken them all on board. I don?t totally agree with them all but my lack of scientific knowledge makes it time consuming for me to go through all of the links,do the research etc. to make up my own mind. Therefore, quick responses to your comments are hard as the time lag affects the flow of the thread. As well as making me mad at times ( ) your points have also made me address my own understanding of this issue !! I guess I owe you some thanks. LOL
(hope that makes sense - long night with restless dd waking far too often.)

smallpox was not eradicated by the vaccine, that's for sure. the only official figures i know off hand are for germany, but i'd imagine it to be similar for every country. from 1900 until 1980, ALL but one of the people who died of smallpox were fully and over-vaccinated. the handful who were not vaccinated and contracted smallpox went on to heal completely.
if the disappearance of diseases were due only to vaccines, then plague should be alive and rampant, as there is no vaccine for it.
if the government or pharma were interested to keep people healthy, then they would collect figures not only on the number of notifiable diseases, but the vaccination status of the people who contract any notifiable diseases. this would then give them an indication of whether or not a vaccine is working. but it isn't done.

jaytree, sorry if i didn't respond quickly, but i do have a family and a life to live
so you think it's okay for someone to condemn someone else for 'condeming millions of children to death' because they don't believe in vaccination but when i dare question this (and my question to her hasn't been answered!) then i'm 'personal'? i don't quite understand.
and yes, i feel very passionate about this issue because i've been researching it for years and i've seen what vaccines can do first hand. look around you. look at children's eyes, look at their dilated pupils, look at their shadows under their eyes. this points to mercury damage (thimerosal in many vaccines) and then count the number of these children. and parents still blindly take them to their doctors and allow more of the stuff injected into them.

YPUK - You have totally misunderstood my contributions to this discussion. I have not condemned anyone for their views - I have pasted my original comment and I think you would be hard pushed to say that I am condemning anyone at all. I hope that by reading this again you will be able to see that I have made no attacks on anyone?s point of view at all.

"...., for many children who are unable to take the vaccination for medical reasons, becoming ill with these diseases is far more serious and life threatening. Pregnant women, the elderly who missed out on vaccinations,children too young to be vaccinated etc. are all very much at risk from these serious illnesses."

• (this is undisputable fact, isn?t it?)

"Therefore, perhaps it is worth thinking of the social responisbility when considering these vaccinations - we are not talking about our own children in isolation. (Just a point, no personal digs intended, just thought it worth popping it into the discussion...."

• (as I said, I am NOT malking any digs or condemnations, I am adding what I consider to be a valid, reasoned comment into the arena.)

I am sorry if I have offended you (the irony of that is not lost on me as I have just reread the whole thread). I can see that your research is very important to you and I am not trying to belittle that.

One final plea - please don?t think for a minute that the majority of parents "blindly" take their children to be vaccinated - IMO that is untrue and a little unfair. We might not have years of research behind us but many of us spend a lot of time researching, discussing and worrying about this decision. I don?t know of a single parent that trots and long happily to the doctors for all the jabs without a concern in the world.

I have decided not to comment any further as I have had enough now. I too have a life and maybe mumsnet should not be a part of it anymore. I never thought that postings on a website would upset me as much as it has done and quite frankly, I don?t need it.

Ypuk, I am not interested in continuing to post and respond to misquotations of what I have said and to blanket condemnations of whole professions and industries. Obviously you and angelmouse feel very differently about vaccination than myself and others. Like, JayTree I have a life other than mumsnet and really don't wish to continue wasting my time arguing. I like to use mumsnet as a positive forum for learning and imparting new ways to parent (and deal with life in general). And I plan to spend the little time I have for being online on doing that.

Please don't leave us JayTree, just find other more positive and useful threads and I will join you there!

To JayTree, I really hope that you do continue to be part of mumsnet. I have only been contributing for a couple of days but I feel that we have the same views, worries and concerns and that we have made the decision to vaccinate under the same pressure, stress and understanding of all the information we have.

I have just read over the thread and feel, like you, that those against vaccinations prepetuate the worry that any parent feels when they have finally made the decision to vaccinate.

Someone said there is no definate proof one way or another, so can we all just accept that we make our own choices and they are right and valid of us in our own situation.

Yesterday was hard enough for me without having to be reminded of the horrors that can happen to ANY child for ANY number of reasons.

I did not enjoy giving dd MMR. When I was asked if I was happy to go ahead by HV I did not reply. Just because I decided to go for it did not mean that I was 100% at ease with it. I doubt I would been pleased no matter what choice I made. A child left unvaccinated is not safe.(in my opinion!!!!!)

Please relpy if you can JayTree, especially to let me know how Monday goes. My dd is doing fine and had a good night with no fever (kept up the Calpol). Will write again soon. LOL JoPat.

message withdrawn

if, like me, anyone has been looking for an "idiot's guide" to this issue, there's useful info from the bbc here:

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/health/2002/mmr_debate/

contains latest news, background briefings, links to external websites etc. could be useful background before trawling the net and diving into the detail.

Yes, the thought had ocurred to me that YPUK could be a 'troll'( Internet use of the word )

Please don't let anyone stop using mumsnet because of the exteme views of a few, who choose to make a provocative comment (or personal attack) and then walk away.

Hope everyone is happier now

These last two comments about YPUK make sense. Glad others have been irritated by their comments.

Hopefully this thread can go back to being a place where people can ask each other questions and look for advice, about genuine family concerns, without feeling like idiots or monsters.

I wondered whether YPUK was a troll too... There's nothing wrong with disagreeing with each other (and I've already said my piece on other MMR threads so don't want to get involved in this one) but the way we do it is very important.

YPUKE has certainly ruffled some feathers in a troll-like manner, I agree. Though she could just be the impassioned type. I thought of her when I inspected the shadows under my eyes this morning. Interesting that mercury poisoning from my vaccinations is the probable explanation. I will feel free to stay up late with a bottle of wine again tonight.

Like the typo scummy...

I'm sure we can all stay up a little later tonight, safe in the knowledge that nothing will improve the bags we find in the morning!!!!

Scummymummy :0
And I have spent the last 39 years misinformed by my mother that the monthly black circles under my eyes are a Sicilian trait that indicates to the world that I have my period.

oh how irritating, i was trying to grin at scummymummy and instead just put some stupid punctuation marks....i'm glad i have a day job.

Robin w, as a journalist myself (& not the only one on mumsnet, I've noticed) I do find your assertion that someone extremely annoying, ill-informed and deliberately insulting has to be a journalist just a bit unfair!! I can't imagine that this thread wouldn't make a good story anywhere. Jaytree, don't be upset and don't leave.

I mean't 'I can't imagine this this thread would make a story'...etc Accidental double negative.

I hate it when threads get really nasty. Seems to me everyone had their own opinions, but that doesn't mean we should be vile to each other. I don't want any of the "old" mumsnetters to be put off posting because of youngsters who appear to lack basic manners. Do as you would be done by everyone and if you can't hack it bog off.

hahaha. sorry to disappoint you but YPUK is not a troll. and i don't get paid by anyone either. UNLIKE certain pro vaccine people on this board (hi eve and others).
i feel sorry for you mothers who feel the need to vaccinate your children. vaccination does by no means equal immunization, ya know. i just hope, for your children's sake, that you learn some more about vaccinations before you condemn them to death or infertility. if you're seriously interested in this subject, i'd recommend the whale.to site, it also has links for email lists. i will no longer waste my time on this board. as far as i'm concerned i have not offended anyone, simply confronted lemmings and asked questions which have yet to be answered, but i won't hang around to wait for them since they have posted since and not bothered to reply to my questions. have a good life all

yawn. bye then, ypuke.

scummymummy, you do make me giggle!