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999: expectations and reality

131 replies

mrkrasotulkin · 14/05/2019 23:41

… I think the expectations in question are reasonable and commonly held, and yet dead wrong. Read on, because this may one day be useful.

In January of this year, while staying in a large English city, I called 999 as I thought that my 12-month-old daughter swallowed a pill of codeine, a strong painkiller used by my wife. (Talk about terrible timing - my wife just took a flight to be with her dying mum, and left me holding the childcare fort). Fast forward to the happy end: she never did. Furthermore, had she swallowed the codeine pill, this would not have been be a life-threatening emergency: according to the A&E doctor, they would put the child under observation.

I did not know that at the time, and acted on the belief that my child’s life was in danger. I did not have a car, and chose to call 999 - instead of ordering an Uber and taking a 10-minute drive to the nearest A&E - based on another assumption: that a case with a baby in danger would be highly prioritized by 999, and that an ambulance (with resuscitation equipment and medics on board) would arrive quickly. It helped that I was in the city’s centre.

The ambulance arrived at my door 58 minutes later. By that time, I was already at A&E. I ordered an Uber after 30-plus minutes of waiting, and 3 follow-up calls to 999, with me occasionally screaming at 999 operators.

Let’s approach those expectations. You might think that when somebody calls 999 and tells the operator that a 12-month-old child just swallowed a 30 mg pill of codeine phosphate, a medical professional would be contacted and determine how serious the problem is. In this case, the answer would be “not very”; I would be reassured and advised to go (but not rush) to A&E for observation.

It does not work like that. 999 operators are not medical professionals, but more regular people, relying on approved case-disposition pathways/algorithms, where you are asked a yes-or-no question 1, then depending on your answer you get asked question 2 or question 3, etc. It makes sense statistically - unfortunately, it did not make sense in my situation, where the ingestion of a poisonous substance had taken place less than a minute ago, and no symptoms would yet be apparent. No matter - the operator insisted that we stick to the script. This is where the screaming started.

Before or during the screaming, there was a request to escalate, and it is either that request, or one of the follow-up calls, or simply the clock marking X minutes after the first 999 call, that triggered another event. Remember my hopes about a doctor? It turns out that a doctor’s advice was sought, but a clinician was not available. A “safety net” scenario was activated, and an ambulance was sent out.

… with second-highest priority, assigned by default in “safety net” cases. And then a top-priority case (like a heart attack) happened in the city, and the ambulance was diverted. The ambulance that arrived 58 minutes after my call was its (eventual) replacement.

What is the lesson here? I think it’s: lower your expectations about 999. Understand 999’s triage process and be prepared to play along - or don’t waste your time in a case like mine, with no symptoms at the time of the 999 call. Do not expect a doctor to be available. Do not expect preferential treatment for a child. (At least I have no evidence to the contrary based on my subsequent, face-to-face conversation with the representatives of the ambulance service). Overall, strongly consider getting to A&E using your own transport. 999 will only approve, as this will free up an ambulance for someone without that option.

OP posts:
FrankiesKnuckle · 14/05/2019 23:53

So you screamed at a 9s call taker and expected to be 'upgraded'?

You said yourself you could've taken an uber.
Did you think to cancel the ambulance sent to you when it didn't arrive quick enough for your expectations? Because you know that ambulance could've been used for any number of the other stacked jobs actually needing an ambulance response.

999 call handlers are assessed continually for QA (quality assurance) if they deviate from their script they get marked down - frustrating for you and them!
Frustrating for us too, out on the road, turning up to jobs that 'could've got an Uber' or annoyingly patients that are no longer there.

Do go and have a sit down and a think about the bigger picture here.
Biscuit

stayathomegardener · 14/05/2019 23:55

Total madness. Yours!

Hollie089 · 14/05/2019 23:57

Call 111 if you wish to be triaged.

stayathomegardener · 14/05/2019 23:58

I waited for an ambulance for a frail 85 year old immobile and freezing outside in February on the pavement with a broken hip for an hour and ten minutes.

That's appalling but there just weren't the ambulances so really what can you do.

Frogqueen13 · 15/05/2019 00:01

Yvvvvvvu

The call was taken, prioritised and ambulance dispatched- you were triaged by 999 correctly- not an emergency. This was then confirmed in A&E.

You shouted at the people trying to help you and it got you know where.

TitianaTitsling · 15/05/2019 00:01

Why couldn't you work out if a 12 yo had or hadn't taken something they shouldn't? Were they not able to appropriately communicate with you? Why would you scream at 999 call handlers?!

nocoolnamesleft · 15/05/2019 00:05

Children do get unofficially prioritised. A child who is not breathing will get priority over an adult who is not breathing. A child who is unconscious will get priority over an adult who is unconscious. A child receiving CPR will get priority over an adult receiving CPR.

A currently well child, who may or may not have taken something that might or might not cause them to become unwell, would quite rightly not be prioritised over an actually ill adult.

Kummerspeck · 15/05/2019 00:06

I think your expectations were unrealistic. I have waited twice with elderly people for emergency ambulances recently, one occasion an 86 year old heavy bleeding from the face following a fall (2 hours with a 999 operative on the phone line for the last part due t the risk of crashing from blood loss) and the second a 90 year old clearly unwell diabetic, ambulance ordered by the GP, that was just over 4 hours.
I know it is scary but do you really think a child who has maybe or maybe not taken a non-dangerous small dose of something and is with an adult who is capable of transporting them should take priority over emergencies? Never any excuse for screaming at someone doing a difficult and stressful job, specially when it is your unrealistic demands that are the problem

MustBeAWeasly · 15/05/2019 00:07

You say there were no symptoms so could you not have simply called an uber the minute you realised the pill had been swallowed. It costs the NHS hundreds of pounds to send an ambulance and you couldn't spend a £15 on a TEN MINUTE drive. It's people like you who are the reason seriously ill people are dieing while waiting for ambulances. Its for immediately life threatening emergencies I.e serious breathing difficulties, serious bleeding and cardiac arrest.
While swallowing a pill like that would require urgent medical attention it did NOT require an ambulance.
Educate yourself.

OldAndWornOut · 15/05/2019 00:08

Each time I have called an ambulance, they experience has been pretty much what I expected in an emergency, because I wouldn't call one unless it was.

Shadycorner · 15/05/2019 00:15

I understand that you were worried about your child op, but I assume the protocols are in place for good reason. It was wrong to scream at people who are trying to help you (yes the system is under-resourced but that's not the staff's fault). Also, knowing the system is under-resourced, you can scoop up a 12month old and put them in a taxi, which you can't do with someone elderly and immobile.

Having said all that, I live abroad where you have access to a free "poisons hotline" in this situation. You describe to them what has happened and they tell you how to proceed and whether to call an ambulance or not. I do happen to think that this system is more efficient tbh.

Weegobshite · 15/05/2019 00:19

TitianaTitsling Why couldn't you work out if a 12 yo he never mentioned a 12 yo. Take your time, read accuratly and then see if you could get a 1 year old to confirm what they had swallowed.

hellenbackagen · 15/05/2019 00:23

And meanwhile op while you were screaming at a 999 call handler because your baby who
You should have been watching swallowed a pill they should never have got hold of an ambulance was directed to you - one you
Didn't even need and took one
Off the streets for some
Poor unfortunate who may have been in GENUINE need of one.

Yabu and actually sound like an entitled fool. Go you .

TitianaTitsling · 15/05/2019 00:26

Ok apologies is 12 month old not 12 year old!

bloodywhitecat · 15/05/2019 00:32

Why would anyone expect preferential treatment for a child, is the priority not life threatening cases? Whenever one is called for my daughter they are usually fairly swift to get to her as she is usually blue and becoming unaware of her surroundings and her heart rate is often over 200bpm. When I called an ambulance a few weeks ago it was because I had witnesses a motorcyclist who was doing 50-60mph hit a car that had pulled out of a small lane into the biker's path, that day we heard the air ambulance long before we heard the sirens of the land ambulance. I think the call handlers and the ambulance crews do amazing work in very trying circumstances and they do not deserve to be screamed at.

CrotchetyQuaver · 15/05/2019 00:39

You lost me when you wrote you screamed at the ambulance operators.

Did it not occur to you to see what you could discover for yourself about overdose effects BEFORE you phoned for an ambulance. There is this wonderful thing called the internet, also there's a safety leaflet in the packet of pills.

You disgust me @mrkrasotulkin you really do. What did you think would happen. I suggest that in future you keep medication out of the reach of small children consider your next steps before going into hysterical blind panic and demanding an ambulance.

asdou · 15/05/2019 00:40

I love the way men write on MN. It's as if they're writing a novel...

Unfortunately, I'm all too familiar with the ambulance service. The one time I almost died, they were 4+ hours, by which time, the paramedics couldn't believe I was still conscious. Yet they've been here within minutes for a presumed asthma attack when I told them it wasn't that bad.

The only difference I can think of is that on the near death experience, it was my ex ringing on my behalf as I was too weak to speak - something he failed to communicate to them - and it wasn't one of the questions!

hellenbackagen · 15/05/2019 00:41

I'm in emergency service and gone are the days that people only rang 999 for emergencies.

Mobile phones and the fact it's free to call 999 play a big part I this.

People now ring 999 for the most ridiculous reasons.

The right course of action in this scenario would have been 111 for triage or straight to A&E , this did not warrant a 999 call in the first place . It was quite rightly not deemed warranted of an immediate response.
The fact you can't drive or have no
Car has zero bearing on what the criteria for a genuine emergency call is.

Suggest you keep strong medication away from the baby in future

And suggest you learn what constitutes an emergency.
And suggest you learn manners because quite frankly when I respond now on blue Lights and sirens if all I get Is abuse at the other end And there is clearly no emergency I walk . I'm surprised there wasn't a police escort waiting with the ambulance. Getting angry actually delays the response time because 9 times out of 10'if threats are perceived to paramedics they stand off until the police arrive.

asdou · 15/05/2019 00:42

@CrotchetyQuaver If he HAD taken the time to google (in a blind panic), you'd all be screeching at him why wasn't he dialling 999! Grin

asdou · 15/05/2019 00:44

@hellenbackagain In all fairness, most of us don't know that a baby swallowing codeine is NOT an emergency.

DonnatellaLyman · 15/05/2019 00:44

I would expect an ambulance to be called where the team can initiate emergency medical treatment eg a child with difficulty breathing who might need oxygen or medication; a child who is fitting as the ambulance service can give first line antiepileptic drugs.

Also for some conditions, eg stroke and heart attack, the ambulance service can direct care rapidly to an appropriate life saving service. This is why there have been public health campaigns about recognising these conditions.

What 999 is not (thankfully)

  1. a free and faster uber for the parent who screams the loudest
  2. a queue jump mechanism for A&e

Your daughter didn’t need an ambulance. They couldn’t have initiated any treatment, and she had a parent capable of transporting her to A&e. I sincerely hope your tantrum didn’t delay care for someone who needed it.

AlunWynsKnee · 15/05/2019 00:46

You should have phoned 111 or popped yourself down to A&E in the Uber. 111 can contact poisons units or doctors.

RubberTreePlant · 15/05/2019 00:47

Why are you all engaging with this GF?

specterlitt · 15/05/2019 00:48

Disgusting that you screamed the 999 call handler, and your expectations are ridiculous too. Call handlers ARE NOT medical professionals, where on earth did you get the assumption that they are?

You were capable of taking an Uber, yet you chose to waste time yourself and NHS resources, I think you need to have a word with yourself.

You actually come across like an entitled arsehole who thinks everyone owes him and his child something. You literally were rude to those who were there to help you, pathetic.

Also, if your wife is not around why is her medication out and about where a child could possibly reach? Surely this is something you need to address yourself. Accidents can happen, but the person who takes the medication was not even in the same home at the time so there's no reason medication should not be secured away.

I hope if you ever need to use the emergency service again, you treat staff with more respect. Furthermore, if it is quicker for you to get there yourself - do it.

A lesson for you in manners to be learned here and safeguarding your child from POM. Hmm

PastaPins · 15/05/2019 00:51

Idiot.