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999: expectations and reality

131 replies

mrkrasotulkin · 14/05/2019 23:41

… I think the expectations in question are reasonable and commonly held, and yet dead wrong. Read on, because this may one day be useful.

In January of this year, while staying in a large English city, I called 999 as I thought that my 12-month-old daughter swallowed a pill of codeine, a strong painkiller used by my wife. (Talk about terrible timing - my wife just took a flight to be with her dying mum, and left me holding the childcare fort). Fast forward to the happy end: she never did. Furthermore, had she swallowed the codeine pill, this would not have been be a life-threatening emergency: according to the A&E doctor, they would put the child under observation.

I did not know that at the time, and acted on the belief that my child’s life was in danger. I did not have a car, and chose to call 999 - instead of ordering an Uber and taking a 10-minute drive to the nearest A&E - based on another assumption: that a case with a baby in danger would be highly prioritized by 999, and that an ambulance (with resuscitation equipment and medics on board) would arrive quickly. It helped that I was in the city’s centre.

The ambulance arrived at my door 58 minutes later. By that time, I was already at A&E. I ordered an Uber after 30-plus minutes of waiting, and 3 follow-up calls to 999, with me occasionally screaming at 999 operators.

Let’s approach those expectations. You might think that when somebody calls 999 and tells the operator that a 12-month-old child just swallowed a 30 mg pill of codeine phosphate, a medical professional would be contacted and determine how serious the problem is. In this case, the answer would be “not very”; I would be reassured and advised to go (but not rush) to A&E for observation.

It does not work like that. 999 operators are not medical professionals, but more regular people, relying on approved case-disposition pathways/algorithms, where you are asked a yes-or-no question 1, then depending on your answer you get asked question 2 or question 3, etc. It makes sense statistically - unfortunately, it did not make sense in my situation, where the ingestion of a poisonous substance had taken place less than a minute ago, and no symptoms would yet be apparent. No matter - the operator insisted that we stick to the script. This is where the screaming started.

Before or during the screaming, there was a request to escalate, and it is either that request, or one of the follow-up calls, or simply the clock marking X minutes after the first 999 call, that triggered another event. Remember my hopes about a doctor? It turns out that a doctor’s advice was sought, but a clinician was not available. A “safety net” scenario was activated, and an ambulance was sent out.

… with second-highest priority, assigned by default in “safety net” cases. And then a top-priority case (like a heart attack) happened in the city, and the ambulance was diverted. The ambulance that arrived 58 minutes after my call was its (eventual) replacement.

What is the lesson here? I think it’s: lower your expectations about 999. Understand 999’s triage process and be prepared to play along - or don’t waste your time in a case like mine, with no symptoms at the time of the 999 call. Do not expect a doctor to be available. Do not expect preferential treatment for a child. (At least I have no evidence to the contrary based on my subsequent, face-to-face conversation with the representatives of the ambulance service). Overall, strongly consider getting to A&E using your own transport. 999 will only approve, as this will free up an ambulance for someone without that option.

OP posts:
Gatesgate · 15/05/2019 00:52
  1. Store medication safely out of children's reach
  1. If child is breathing, acting normally but you have enough suspicion they may have ingested a harmful substance- call 111 for advice and triaging, as always you can't be too careful with babies so cab to A&E or urgent care may be sensible
  1. Please don't waste time googling, flapping, screaming at people, or waste NHS resources like ambulances in future- your child was breathing and conscious, somebody else's may not have been.
  1. Screaming is incredibly understandable in genuine emergencies- screaming at people who need to do their job fast to save lives- doesn't help them act fast or understand the situation any better
OmarKhayyam · 15/05/2019 00:53

Ring 111 for toxic ingestions unless the person is currently unconscious or suffering symptoms. 111 clinicians can look on tox base and do weight/dose based calculations to work out what needs to happen next.

Legumewaffle · 15/05/2019 00:58

Agreed with everyone. You sound like an arse. You clearly have no idea how hard the emergency services work under impossible circumstances.

Screaming at the call operator is disgusting. It sounds like you need to learn some respect.

MrsTerryPratchett · 15/05/2019 01:02

9 times out of 10 if threats are perceived to paramedics they stand off until the police arrive.

I have worked in some scary places and we often had the police arriving before the paramedics. Safety first.

ox136jl · 15/05/2019 01:08

Screaming at the 999 call handler is never going to help but I do think there are some issues with the way the ambulance service is organised/integrated into the hospital system.
This is quite outing but last year my 11 yo super-healthy DS had a major seizure out of the blue (now diagnosed as epileptic). We called 999 and the ambulance took over an hour to reach us (we live in a fairly rural area and it had to come from a way away). They rang two hospitals and took us to the one where the A&E was least busy, but we were still held in a queue outside A&E with 3 other ambulances for about half an hour. So that was 8 paramedics and 4 ambulances tied up unnecessarily because they couldn’t accept any of us into the A&E. The paramedics (who were lovely and couldn’t have been more helpful) all knew each other, even when they were from different ambulance services, as they so often hang out together outside A&E. Can’t be an efficient use of resources but I didn’t scream at them!

Redglitter · 15/05/2019 01:13

So you took your daughter in a taxi & didnt bother to let the ambulance know they weren't needed. An ambulance and crew came to your empty house wasted time getting there no doubt then tried to get hold of you with no success. You tied up an ambulance when you had no need for it an ambulance which was clearly needed elsewhere

FireFighter999 · 15/05/2019 01:22

Your DC was able to ingest a Codeine tablet, what the hell were you doing when this happened?

How dare you scream at the call handler, you are disgusting.

Tinysarah1985 · 15/05/2019 06:49

How did you know child had swallowed it? Don’t they come in blister packs/child proof lid bottles?
Also, what could the ambulance crew do when they arrived? Do a basic observation check and take you to hospital. So as others have said, why not get a taxi in the first place?
And streaming at the call handler would have achieved nothing, except maybe a marker/flag for aggressive behaviour so future callers/responders are aware.
I sense a wind up here

Dermymc · 15/05/2019 06:54

OP you are ridiculous. Of course you should have taken yourself to A&E if you're only 15 minutes away.

Ambulances are for emergencies and when people cannot get themselves to hospital. Generally if you can transport yourself, it will be quicker than an ambulance anyway. (Obviously this excludes cardiac arrests etc where the person needs working on on the way).

You are an unrealistic and very rude man.

TheoriginalLEM · 15/05/2019 06:58

You are not a nice man

cptartapp · 15/05/2019 06:58

Maybe you were so angry because the issue arose under your supervision.
I'm a HCP of over 30 years. Your DD wasn't a priority and you were out of order to be screaming at anybody. See this reaction often though sadly. Usually from men.

Tableclothing · 15/05/2019 07:02

I think being able to get an ambulance, for free, to someone who doesn't need one, in less than an hour, is quite impressive, really.

mrkrasotulkin · 15/05/2019 07:04

Oh wow. It's not even 7 am, and there are already so many responses, and they are so ... lively. However, this entitled arsehole will pass on engaging in a discussion. Here's my experience, learn from it or don't, it's your choice.

OP posts:
stucknoue · 15/05/2019 07:08

I think the person with unrealistic and unreasonable expectations was you, I know all of what you have said because I'm educated about how the system works, in my case my cousin is a 999 operator - they are highly trained professionals taught to guide people calmly through cpr, childbirth etc whilst the ambulance gets to you. If someone calls saying their kids taken dangerous medication then of course they will send an ambulance, it is prioritised by medical professionals who work for the ambulance service based on your information. If you live in a (smaller) city it's usually quicker to drive to a&e if it's safe to do so, I've driven my daughter several times following seizures, I can be there in under 10 mins unless rush hour.

Try watching "ambulance" on bbc currently on iPlayer, you will learn a lot. 999 isn't a taxi service for those without cars or not wanting to pay for a cab, alas too many people think it is

StickOfRhubarb · 15/05/2019 07:09

There isn’t much to learn though. Most people know that if you call the emergency services they don’t immediately rush over with their sirens on.

Unless they live in a world created by CBEEBIES. Where Fireman Sam would race over in his engine to rescue your cat from a quite high fence.

Kittykat93 · 15/05/2019 07:11

You're a dick. Maybe in future try keeping your baby away from dangerous medications.

specterlitt · 15/05/2019 07:12

@mrkrasotulkin The ONLY one who needs to learn from your "experience" is YOU. Learn some manners and protect your child from prescription medication and do not waste NSH resources. None of us have anything to learn from what you have said.

There's no discussion to be had either, you were rude to those there to help, put your own child in danger, wasted NHS resources, and failed to understand when to use 111 and 999 and know the basic that they are not medical professionals behind the phone. Hmm.

specterlitt · 15/05/2019 07:15

NHS*

azulmariposa · 15/05/2019 07:19

You were the one that wasted their time. You could've called 111 and gotten advice. Or you could've gone to a&e yourself.

Now if you arrive in an ambulance then you do get priority over other patients. A few years ago I found myself in a situation of having to wait three days for an emergency operation, whereas if I had gone in by ambulance I would've gone straight to theatre. A two hour op turned into five as so much damage was done whilst waiting.

Stormwhale · 15/05/2019 07:19

Your experience is nothing to be honest. I think you should be grateful that your situation wasnt even that serious and stop waffling on.

I have real reason to be concerned about the ambulance response rate after my grandfather nearly died from a stroke and they had to tell us there was no ambulance coming. Have you any idea how traumatizing it is to watch your loved one dying in front of you and know there is no one coming to help? We ended up dragging him into a car and driving through red lights to try and save his life.

Dermymc · 15/05/2019 07:19

There's nothing to learn!! Most people know this is how 99 works you twat.

hazeyjane · 15/05/2019 07:22

Here's my experience, learn from it or don't, it's your choice

The irony of this post is that you were delaying an ambulance (that you didn't need) getting to someone else.

scaevola · 15/05/2019 07:24

I knew already that people in a panic behave erratically.

I'm not sure what else there is to take from this.

Call handlers are however very used to dealing with people behaving irrationally. And they are well trained for their role, and will prioritise calls regardless of the attitude of the caller.

Thisnamechanger · 15/05/2019 07:25

I love how you seem to think you're imparting some marvellous new wisdom here when most people know how not to be an arsehole Grin

Also lol at "left me holding the childcare fort". Slightly dramatic way of saying you had to watch your own DC!

Iliketeaagain · 15/05/2019 07:27

Sorry you were so worried about your daughter.

But that was some seriously patronising shite you wrote. It's like an attempt to be superior and educate "the masses" about how to use 999 properly, a "let me educate those silly mums on Mumsnet about using 999"

Well, most of us know to call 999 in a life or death emergency, not instead of just phoning a taxi or using an Uber for a 15 minute journey.

And most of us know of course 999 is not answered by medical professionals, it is answered however by highly trained call handlers who deserve respect like any other person you speak to and NOT to be screamed at by incompetent parents who don't supervise their children properly.