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999: expectations and reality

131 replies

mrkrasotulkin · 14/05/2019 23:41

… I think the expectations in question are reasonable and commonly held, and yet dead wrong. Read on, because this may one day be useful.

In January of this year, while staying in a large English city, I called 999 as I thought that my 12-month-old daughter swallowed a pill of codeine, a strong painkiller used by my wife. (Talk about terrible timing - my wife just took a flight to be with her dying mum, and left me holding the childcare fort). Fast forward to the happy end: she never did. Furthermore, had she swallowed the codeine pill, this would not have been be a life-threatening emergency: according to the A&E doctor, they would put the child under observation.

I did not know that at the time, and acted on the belief that my child’s life was in danger. I did not have a car, and chose to call 999 - instead of ordering an Uber and taking a 10-minute drive to the nearest A&E - based on another assumption: that a case with a baby in danger would be highly prioritized by 999, and that an ambulance (with resuscitation equipment and medics on board) would arrive quickly. It helped that I was in the city’s centre.

The ambulance arrived at my door 58 minutes later. By that time, I was already at A&E. I ordered an Uber after 30-plus minutes of waiting, and 3 follow-up calls to 999, with me occasionally screaming at 999 operators.

Let’s approach those expectations. You might think that when somebody calls 999 and tells the operator that a 12-month-old child just swallowed a 30 mg pill of codeine phosphate, a medical professional would be contacted and determine how serious the problem is. In this case, the answer would be “not very”; I would be reassured and advised to go (but not rush) to A&E for observation.

It does not work like that. 999 operators are not medical professionals, but more regular people, relying on approved case-disposition pathways/algorithms, where you are asked a yes-or-no question 1, then depending on your answer you get asked question 2 or question 3, etc. It makes sense statistically - unfortunately, it did not make sense in my situation, where the ingestion of a poisonous substance had taken place less than a minute ago, and no symptoms would yet be apparent. No matter - the operator insisted that we stick to the script. This is where the screaming started.

Before or during the screaming, there was a request to escalate, and it is either that request, or one of the follow-up calls, or simply the clock marking X minutes after the first 999 call, that triggered another event. Remember my hopes about a doctor? It turns out that a doctor’s advice was sought, but a clinician was not available. A “safety net” scenario was activated, and an ambulance was sent out.

… with second-highest priority, assigned by default in “safety net” cases. And then a top-priority case (like a heart attack) happened in the city, and the ambulance was diverted. The ambulance that arrived 58 minutes after my call was its (eventual) replacement.

What is the lesson here? I think it’s: lower your expectations about 999. Understand 999’s triage process and be prepared to play along - or don’t waste your time in a case like mine, with no symptoms at the time of the 999 call. Do not expect a doctor to be available. Do not expect preferential treatment for a child. (At least I have no evidence to the contrary based on my subsequent, face-to-face conversation with the representatives of the ambulance service). Overall, strongly consider getting to A&E using your own transport. 999 will only approve, as this will free up an ambulance for someone without that option.

OP posts:
WeShouldBeFriends · 15/05/2019 21:27

Not going to suggest anyone lies and says a loved one is unconscious, but....
And this will be why when someone is actually NOT BREATHING there is no resource to assign because the nearest truck has been sent to 'an unconscious' person who not acutely unwell Hmm

BogglesGoggles · 15/05/2019 21:35

@mnthowaway20199
I’m Australian so I’m used to adequate 21st century standards of healthcare. Seriously, read the thread. There are people waiting hours for what in a normal healthcare system would be an urgent call because there aren’t enough ambulances. And you really can’t blame people like the OP. If they are just told how long it will take to get for an ambulance the vast majority will refuse one. The system is failing people in s myriad of ways starting with a complete failure to be honest with the person on the other end of the line.

SimplySteveRedux · 15/05/2019 21:38

Watch Ambulance Australia on the iPlayer and compare it to the UK based version. The difference is night-and-day. I'd rather live in Aussie than UK, not that I have that choice!

Monkeyssplit · 15/05/2019 21:46

It wasn't an emergency. You wasted the time of the emergency services and took an ambulance away from actual emergencies. I rang an ambulance once. A member of my family had a heart attack. By the time the ambulance arrived he was dead. He was not old and had never been ill. Wasting the time of the emergency services costs lives. You should not be ranting about the service you received but apologising for being part of the problem.

thegreatcrestednewt · 15/05/2019 21:55

Ha ha! So you’re looking after your own dc, you somehow think one dc has swallowed tablet (how? You irresponsible person) and shout and scream at 999.

Then it transpires that your dc hasn’t actually swallowed anything, so no emergency, no drama.

Then you post on Mumsnet, a site of predominantly women, to TELL us how the 999 system works and give us the benefit of your experience.

Lots of people tell you you are an entitled lunatic, and rude to boot.

You strop off, refusing to engage.

😂😂😂😂😂 did you expect us all to fall at your feet and thank you for the benefit of your amazing male experience??

🤣😂🧐🤨😩

WeShouldBeFriends · 15/05/2019 23:10

BogglesGoggles
In our trust we have varying 'levels' of business. Mostly we are meeting times. When it escalates to levels 2,3 or 4 the operators do have scripts to read out with waiting times.

MamaofAHH · 15/05/2019 23:41

I've never called 999 for an ambulance. I've called 111 and been sent paramedics twice, who have arrived pretty immediately and taken the patient to hospital.
I've only ever called 999 for the police when two men broke into my house whilst I was in it, alone with two small children. The police were here in the blink of an eye it felt!

Overall my experience of the emergency services has been fantastic and I couldn't fault them, but perhaps that's because I used them in actual emergencies.

GarnierBBCream · 16/05/2019 00:01

'999 emergency, what's your emergency?'

'I'm a fuckwitted, dumb ass, negligent, mansplaining bell end.'

'Sir, that's just your normal state. I'm afraid you're not a priority.'

'But, but . . . ' Rings back to state the obvious over and over.

MeMyselfAndEyes · 16/05/2019 00:13

Haha!

RubberTreePlant · 16/05/2019 00:16

@GarnierBBCream Grin

wonkylegs · 16/05/2019 00:29

I'm only just sitting here awake because We just phoned 999 for a road traffic accident outside our house, real emergency, dangerous situation with live electricity but thankfully only minor injuries. Police arrived in 10mins despite warning us it might be a wait as they were very busy.
There are several emergency vehicles outside now, road cordoned off and frankly they have all been fab, looks like it's going to be a long night. DH is currently making everyone tea.

Redglitter · 16/05/2019 01:54

Hmmm dont think this thread went the way the OP hoped

putputput · 16/05/2019 04:44

Why on earth didn't you cancel the ambulance once you'd decided to get an Uber???

OrchidInTheSun · 16/05/2019 05:39

It's people like you calling 999 which overloads the system

hazeyjane · 16/05/2019 07:39

perhaps that's because I used them in actual emergencies.

Unfortunately even in an 'actual emergency' wait times can be longer than they should be - through emergencies elsewhere, errors, lack of services, dinguses like the OP...etc

YesQueen · 16/05/2019 07:44

I spent a decade as an ambulance call handler. Feel free to ask me anything and I can try and answer but I don't need it explaining how it works funnily!

TheoriginalLEM · 16/05/2019 09:56

I had to wait an hour with my mother with suspected heart attack. Wasnt HA but an aneurysm and life threatening just the same. The paramedics were horrified that it took them so long to respond.

The reason?

Not necessarily due to calling ambulances unecessarily. 999 operators will triage , althoughto be fair I'd called 111 and they sent ambulance the delay was because when the paramedics get the patients that need hospital to a&e they are not allowed to leave them until they have been officially handed over. In my mothers case, they waited with us for over an hour. Over an hour for a life threatening condition!!

A&E was like a fucking war zone. This wasnt Saturday night it was tuesday afternoon! A hospital department breaking at the seams because it is the only Aa&E in a 40 mile radius. The government having seen fit to close the other one. So my mum's trip to hospital was 25 miles after a hour wait, only to wait another hour on arrival - tying up the paramedics when they should have been released on their next job.

Whilst waiting i ventured into the waiting area for walk ins. There was literally nowhere for clearly very ill patients to sit, there were so many people. A good proportion of those people just needed to see a gp or even a nurse practitioner. They will however been advised to go to a&e as there are no appointments for afucking month!!!

Then there are twats like the OP. Yes that would scare me if my baby swallowed a codeine tablet but i would have called 111 and acted on their advice. I suspect this would have been a call to the poisons unit and a check up at ooh. Not a scene out of casualty!

Toddlerteaplease · 16/05/2019 11:13

Now if you arrive in an ambulance then you do get priority over other patients

Not true.

asdou · 16/05/2019 13:42

If my dd had swallowed a codeine tablet or I believed she had swallowed one, to be honest, I'd have probably called 999 too. I'm not a poisons expert, and know that codeine can affect me pretty badly, so it would not be unreasonable to believe that it might affect a young baby/child detrimentally.

asdou · 16/05/2019 13:44

@thegreatcrestednewt

What a silly post.

asdou · 16/05/2019 13:48

I know for e.g. with paracetamol overdose, there are different treatments for within 1 hour of od, within 4 hours of od, within 24 hours of od and 24 hours after od. The risks are smaller, the earlier it's caught.

The OP is not BU to not know how much codeine could be life threatening to a child.

Wonkydonkey44 · 16/05/2019 13:52

My brother in law fell down the stairs , broke his leg ( foot facing the wrong way round) . Waited two and a half hours for an ambulance .
It’s a sign of a system under pressure and at no point did anyone ring and scream at a call handler Hmm

asdou · 16/05/2019 13:54

The only part of the OP's post that I disagree with (apart from the lecturing tone) is this:

Overall, strongly consider getting to A&E using your own transport. 999 will only approve, as this will free up an ambulance for someone without that option.

While sensible advise in some cases, in other cases, you're literally not fit to get to A&E - e.g. too weak/faint/vomiting/bleeding etc.

I just happened upon this video today on FB. Had the deputy waited for an ambulance, the baby would be dead. The Mum involved obviously didn't realise how close she was to the hospital. Panic can do all sorts of things to you.

Beaubird83 · 16/05/2019 14:09

We have had ambulances come to our family 3 times.
None of those times any of us have dialled 999, we have used the 111 service and they’ve upgraded the calls.
Ambulance no1 was for OHs son, he was having a really bad asthma attack and his inhalers weren’t working. He had a nebuliser at home, then went to hospital for steroids via ambulance to stay on the nebuliser as long as needed,
Ambulance no2 was for myself. Turns out I was having a miscarriage but there was literally blood everywhere, I thought I was dying, still didn’t call 999.
Ambulance no3 was for dd1 when she had had norovirus for a week and wasn’t responding normally. From speaking to the 111 operator to the ambulance arriving was roughly an hour.

If you watch any programme on TV, like Ambulance on the BBC, you will see how stretched their resources are. Generally, if you know you have the capability to get up to the hospital, make your way there yourself. Ambulance are for genuine medical emergencies where people can’t get to hospital, or need literally immediate attention.
999 call handlers are there to do a job, and nobody in ANY line of work deserves to be screamed at.

I think if you were that worried about your own child and you had the option of getting to hospital yourself you’d make your own way there ASAP. That’s what we have always done, we value our NHS and know how stretched they are, so make a mindful step to not waste it.

Also I will say, I’m on LOADS of medication, including morphine, codeine and other tablets, including heart medicine which if a child took would probably be lethal. Tablets live in the top kitchen unit, on the top shelf, in a closed sandwich box. Even the bog standard paracetamol lives there. Understandable, accidents happen, but when it comes to medication, chemicals etc you gotta be all over that. Little hands find everything.

asdou · 16/05/2019 14:14

@Beaubird83 You seem to think it's a badge of honour that you never called 999, yet you've had an ambulance out 3 times. In those cases, why didn't you call for an ambulance? Or why didn't you get to A&E yourself if you didn't think it was an emergency requiring an ambulance? You should know by now that 111 errs on the side of caution.