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999: expectations and reality

131 replies

mrkrasotulkin · 14/05/2019 23:41

… I think the expectations in question are reasonable and commonly held, and yet dead wrong. Read on, because this may one day be useful.

In January of this year, while staying in a large English city, I called 999 as I thought that my 12-month-old daughter swallowed a pill of codeine, a strong painkiller used by my wife. (Talk about terrible timing - my wife just took a flight to be with her dying mum, and left me holding the childcare fort). Fast forward to the happy end: she never did. Furthermore, had she swallowed the codeine pill, this would not have been be a life-threatening emergency: according to the A&E doctor, they would put the child under observation.

I did not know that at the time, and acted on the belief that my child’s life was in danger. I did not have a car, and chose to call 999 - instead of ordering an Uber and taking a 10-minute drive to the nearest A&E - based on another assumption: that a case with a baby in danger would be highly prioritized by 999, and that an ambulance (with resuscitation equipment and medics on board) would arrive quickly. It helped that I was in the city’s centre.

The ambulance arrived at my door 58 minutes later. By that time, I was already at A&E. I ordered an Uber after 30-plus minutes of waiting, and 3 follow-up calls to 999, with me occasionally screaming at 999 operators.

Let’s approach those expectations. You might think that when somebody calls 999 and tells the operator that a 12-month-old child just swallowed a 30 mg pill of codeine phosphate, a medical professional would be contacted and determine how serious the problem is. In this case, the answer would be “not very”; I would be reassured and advised to go (but not rush) to A&E for observation.

It does not work like that. 999 operators are not medical professionals, but more regular people, relying on approved case-disposition pathways/algorithms, where you are asked a yes-or-no question 1, then depending on your answer you get asked question 2 or question 3, etc. It makes sense statistically - unfortunately, it did not make sense in my situation, where the ingestion of a poisonous substance had taken place less than a minute ago, and no symptoms would yet be apparent. No matter - the operator insisted that we stick to the script. This is where the screaming started.

Before or during the screaming, there was a request to escalate, and it is either that request, or one of the follow-up calls, or simply the clock marking X minutes after the first 999 call, that triggered another event. Remember my hopes about a doctor? It turns out that a doctor’s advice was sought, but a clinician was not available. A “safety net” scenario was activated, and an ambulance was sent out.

… with second-highest priority, assigned by default in “safety net” cases. And then a top-priority case (like a heart attack) happened in the city, and the ambulance was diverted. The ambulance that arrived 58 minutes after my call was its (eventual) replacement.

What is the lesson here? I think it’s: lower your expectations about 999. Understand 999’s triage process and be prepared to play along - or don’t waste your time in a case like mine, with no symptoms at the time of the 999 call. Do not expect a doctor to be available. Do not expect preferential treatment for a child. (At least I have no evidence to the contrary based on my subsequent, face-to-face conversation with the representatives of the ambulance service). Overall, strongly consider getting to A&E using your own transport. 999 will only approve, as this will free up an ambulance for someone without that option.

OP posts:
Highlandspring1991 · 15/05/2019 17:16

12 year olds can take codiene. You could’ve taken an Uber as stated. Someone having a heart attack cannot take an Uber. Keep a closer eye next time!!!!

Sexnotgender · 15/05/2019 17:25

Nothing to learn from you, thanks though...

Witchend · 15/05/2019 17:28

Not an emergency that you wouldn't be expected to take an ambulance for.

Put it this way. At work at one point last year a lady collapsed in such a way we thought she might have had a stroke. She didn't speak much English and we couldn't find out if she had any pre-existing conditions.

This was about 11am on a Wednesday morning-fairly quiet time you'd think.

It took us 3 times to get through on 999. First two times it said "we are experiencing unexpected high call volume. Please hang up and try again later." When we got through we were told we were put on urgent (she was drifting in and out of consciousness by this point) and the wait would "only" be between 2 and 3.5 hours.

We took her in by car, which we are not supposed to do, but it was the only realistic way of getting her there.

You answered your own question:
Overall, strongly consider getting to A&E using your own transport. 999 will only approve, as this will free up an ambulance for someone without that option.
Which is exactly what you should have done in the first place rather than holding up a 999 line and abusing the operator.

AnnaMagnani · 15/05/2019 17:40

So you had a child, the most portable of patients, who was alert, breathing and conscious, and the means to get her to hospital within 10 minutes.

Despite this you called 999, screamed at an operator and still got picked up in an hour. For what it turns out was an unnecessary trip and more appropriate for a 111 call or you taking your baby to hospital yourself.

Compare this to my elderly mother who fell down the stairs and was unable to get herself up. She stayed down there all night and was found by a worried neighbour who called 999. As she was alert, breathing etc and 'they were very busy' she was downgraded and waited on the floor getting increasingly confused with the neighbour for several hours, despite them ringing again numerous times to point out she was very ill and had complex health problems.

When the paramedics finally arrived they took one look, realised a massive mistake had been made, she was taken immediately to A+E resus where she was diagnosed with sepsis and she was critically ill for several days.

I would guess one of the reasons they were 'really busy' was pratting about with people like you OP.

NannyRed · 15/05/2019 17:51

My husband was having a heart attack. 999 was called and he was being seen by paramedics within minutes ((no more than 6/7)

Your child did not need an ambulance, her life was not in immediate danger, you screamed at staff and expected an ambulance. “what is the lesson here”? Er..... teach your children not to help themselves to tablets? At 12 she shouldn’t need to be watched over for accidental overdose!

hazeyjane · 15/05/2019 18:12

Just a heads up to those not reading the op properly....the child was 12 months not years.

Op is still a doofus though.

We waited for 2 hours for an ambulance for a burn on ds's leg last year, god that wait was horrific. This thread is bringing it all back.

Hollowvictory · 15/05/2019 18:15

You might expect a parent not to be so negligent as to allow this to happen in the first place.

Hollowvictory · 15/05/2019 18:19

Bit when you tell us to learn from. It.. Yes we're learning not to negligent parents who shout at ambulance operators because they can't be arsed to get a taxi.
I hope ss paid you a visit for your shambolic parenting after this. The person who put your baby at risk was you.

To all the paramedics and 999 call handlers out there, you do a difficult job in tough circumstances dealing with idiots like this. Thank you.

WeShouldBeFriends · 15/05/2019 18:25

There is a clue on the side of ambulances that says something like '999 is for life threatening emergencies, ie, not breathing, actively fitting, catastrophic haemorrhage, stroke, MI'
I work for the ambulance service and may get an actual job like that once every couple of weeks. The rest of the time we go to hundreds of idiots like the OP.

hatemyhairhun · 15/05/2019 18:51

I bet OP somehow managed to blame his wife for the baby taking the tablets, because it’s a of course it’s a “reasonable and commonly held expectation” that it was somehow her responsibility

Sexnotgender · 15/05/2019 20:16

You’re probably not still reading op seeing as this thread mostly likely didn’t go the way you hoped.

For some perspective my daughter has a serious heart condition and has been hospitalised 10 times with pneumonia. Not once has she been in an ambulance.

The only person that needs to learn a lesson here is you.

Mnthrowaway20199 · 15/05/2019 20:22

It’s odd - if your baby took the tablet ‘less than a minute ago’, couldn’t you have realistically done more to prevent them from swallowing it? You saw them take it and in less than 60 seconds called 999, but couldn’t have done more as a parent to protect them from such dangers? If I’m being honest, it’s like you just want to rant about the emergency services/999 to detract from your own parenting skills/lapse in attentiveness

BogglesGoggles · 15/05/2019 20:26

The health service in Britain is really inadequate. Not enough money.

BogglesGoggles · 15/05/2019 20:29

@mnthriwaway20199 my younger child has been able to open childproof bottles since about the age of 14months. If his wife had dropped the blister pack/bottle or left it lying around by mistake the OP may have noticed missing pills and come to the conclusion that there was a possibility that the child swallowed one while his back was turned/he was out of the room for minute. Accidents do happen. It’s not automatically a case of poor parenting because they criticised the nhs

Mnthrowaway20199 · 15/05/2019 20:30

Of course not, I am absolutely making assumptions based upon the ridiculous OP though.

BogglesGoggles · 15/05/2019 20:31

Also worth point out that he waited because he thought someone was coming. This is a common problem in this country where 999 operators tell you to wait instead of giving you a realistic estimate of how long it will take to get an ambulance and people have died from this. If they had just told him they couldn’t get there for an hour he would have just taken a cab.

Cynara · 15/05/2019 20:39

You're being ridiculous. You were 10 minutes away from an A&E department. Why on earth would your asymptomatic child be a priority in those circumstances? The ambulance service is staffed by highly trained clinicians whose business it is to respond to emergencies and save lives. Your parental inadequacies do not fall into this bracket. This nonsense is part of the reason for the astronomical attrition rate from front line services. Thank God I got out when I did.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 15/05/2019 20:49

Thinking of your poor wife. Off to visit her dying mother and the minute she’s gone the baby is into the codeine.

DH called an ambulance for Fil who had clearly had a major stroke last year. Because he was conscious it was not a priority apparently and took an hour and a quarter to arrive. Then there was some delay while they decided on which hospital to take him to, eventually settling on the one with the best stroke unit an hour a way.

Sadly Fil was left very disabled and died a few months later.

My own take on 999 expectations and reality; the stuff on the TV ads about strokes getting prompt attention is bollocks. Not going to suggest anyone lies and says a loved one is unconscious, but....

SimplySteveRedux · 15/05/2019 20:52

Taking an opioid can have varying effects - what was the strength of the codeine; and codeine isn't a "strong" opioid.

That said, I have bouts of excruciating abdo pain with other symptoms. It can be faster for me to crawl to my car, drive to A&E, and crawl in - to be taken to Resus, than wait for an Ambo to arrive - even with instant prio.

Mnthrowaway20199 · 15/05/2019 20:54

@BogglesGoggles aww, you sound like the OP.

He has the luxury of living 10 minutes away from an A&E department. Unless someone was literally dying or otherwise unable to move/unconscious/not breathing, he did not need to be told to take a taxi. It’s common sense.

The 999 dispatchers can’t ever give an accurate time of when an ambulance will arrive because of the nature of emergency calls - it got diverted here because someone else had an actual life or death emergency such as a heart attack/stab wounds/car collision etc etc. How could the call dispatcher foresee this at the time of advising OP that an ambulance was dispatched?

Sorry but more people have died over reckless usage of emergency services. Triage exists for a reason. And again, more vigilant parenting would have prevented this entire incident to begin with.

AnnaMagnani · 15/05/2019 20:56

TinklyLittleLaugh - yes, I work in healthcare and we have it drummed into us about the Sepsis Six and how fast someone needs antibiotics.

And I think fat lot of good that was doing my DM when she was dying on the floor for hours because she was only an old woman with a fall, FFS.

SauvignonBlanche · 15/05/2019 21:00

What is the lesson here? I think it’s: lower your expectations about 999. Understand 999’s triage process and be prepared to play along

Really? That’s what you’ve learnt? Not don’t be a dick and call 999 when it’s not necessary? I doubt your story has enlightened anyone with a modicum of common sense or intelligence. Hmm

JaneEyre07 · 15/05/2019 21:00

We keep medication in a cupboard that our DC can't reach.

Hopefully you learned a lesson about child safety, OP.

I'd feel embarrassed ranting at people when I'd potentially poisoned my child.

Hmm
HalyardHitch · 15/05/2019 21:11

To be fair, it took four hours for my "unresponsive" baby to have an ambulance. Thankfully he came round and we cancelled the ambulance but one still turned up as they didn't get the message

CaMePlaitPas · 15/05/2019 21:21

What did I just read?