Circumcision - have you had your ds 'done'?

[monkeygirl]

My dh wants to follow the family tradition of having ds circumcised (for non-religious reasons) but I'm not sure if I want him to go under the knife. If you've had your ds done, why and at what age? And do you think it's made a difference (ie health and hygenically-wise)?

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REgarding the issue of female genital mutilation the following is what happens in the most radical case (which is not that uncommon in some areas). The clitoris is cut off, totaly, removing the possibility of enjoyable sex to the woman, the insides of the labia may be scraped or the lips of the labia cut off, and the edges stuck together. A small stick, the sixe of a match stick will be placed withing the wound to keep open a small hole to allow the passage of urine and menstrual blood. When the girl is married the wound may have to be cut open to allow her husband to have sex with her. When pregnant she may be re-stitched and cut open for delivery. With repeated 'operations' of this sort, she may produce fistulas and the vagina and bowel can become one passage.

This is not circucision, this is torture. No child would sleep through this. The two are not comperable.

thanks twiglett

I watched a programme on female circumcision not that long ago, it was horrible.

FuzzyWuzzy - at the Cromwell Hospital in London and its called the Placibel Method - or something like that. If you want the number of the guy - let me know.

WidgetWB, that's the same method we had at the Clementine Churchill Hospital in, gawd where is it? NW London somewhere...... Same experience, no problems, no discernible reaction at all. Nothing like the horror stories and pictures posted here. I would do it again too.

Obviously just anecdotal, but so a bad complication of the "ring method", ended up with "surgical" circumcision".
Anyway, dh arriving home and would think me/us absurd if he knew what "we" were up to...

Monkeygirl - Glad you've decided against imposing the cut on your ds.
It can be his own decision when he's older "Do I want part of my penis cut off???"
I'll make a guess what his decision will be.

I'll never understand how loving parents think they've the moral right to do this to their child.

channel 4 now about orthodox jews and circumcision apparently

I'm coming into this a bit late, but just wanted to let you know Aloha that circumcision is very common in Australia and the United States, and not many people seem to raise an eyebrow if you say that your son is circumcised. Having said that, it is probably not done nowadays as much as it was in the past, but it is still quite a common procedure and it appears to be much less of a contentious issue over here. I was just a little surprised when you said that you thought circumcision was quite rare and that it was only Jewish people who had it done. My father and brother are circumcised, and I've never been with a man who wasn't!! Seriously. My dh is English and he is also circumcised, so I've grown up thinking that it's completely the norm. To be uncircumcised always seemed unusual to me, but perhaps that's just because it's always been more of an 'accepted' thing over here. I would say there has definitely been a reduction in the number of circumcisions performed over the last few years though.

I live in the states as well. It is quite common here but becoming less so. There is quite a campaign against it now and as soon as I found out that I was pregnant with a boy many friends asked if we were going to circumcise. We did not.

One thing that one has to guard against here is that the medical profession is lagging behind in knowing the proper care of an intact penis. Many will try to retract the foreskin at well baby checks and one must be vigilant in preventing this. Also, they tend to scream surgery at the slightest hint of a tight foreskin. Hopefully, as more people keep their sons intact the ignorance of the medical profession wil dissipate. Until then, one must be vigilant at check ups. I had a nurse practitioner attempt to retract ds's foreskin when I turned my back for a minute to get a clean diaper. It can happen that fast! They have no idea that they can cause scarring and permanent damage that then may require the circumcision that the parents avoided in the first place.

hate to add to an already lengthy thread on this mega-controversial topic! but what the hey.

Am in Malaysia where circumcision for boys is becoming more and more common. Used to be only the Muslims would do it, usually at the age of 10ish. Now even the Chinese are doing it for hygiene reasons. they're doing it at a younger age now, my sis did her ds when he was 2 mths, he was the oldest patient in the surgery that day! And 90pct of the patients were Chinese non-Muslims! nowadays they use a laser thingy which is more accurate and painfree.the dr was so proud of the laser method he told my sister that "This is much better than the ring method. Lifetime guarantee, if the end user (wink) should complain, she can sue me!!)

Muslim girls also used to be circumcised during my time as a matter of course, betw the ages of 2 mth to maybe 6mth but it certainly didnt involve mutilation i think. I certainly can experience pleasurable lovemaking and orgasms
altho nowadays, that trend is disappearing and we didnt circumcise our dd after speaking to 2 male muslim paediatricians. not the 'in' thing to do, and unnecessary.my three nieces didnt do it either.
but some people still do it, and its also just a simple laser thingy i understand. i could be wrong.and it leaves the area almost intact.

OK. that's my twopennies worth.

I'm curious, what do you mean by "almost intact" on the female circumcision?

HMB said:
REgarding the issue of female genital mutilation the following is what happens in the most radical case (which is not that uncommon in some areas). The clitoris is cut off, totaly, removing the possibility of enjoyable sex to the woman, the insides of the labia may be scraped or the lips of the labia cut off, and the edges stuck together. A small stick, the sixe of a match stick will be placed withing the wound to keep open a small hole to allow the passage of urine and menstrual blood. When the girl is married the wound may have to be cut open to allow her husband to have sex with her. When pregnant she may be re-stitched and cut open for delivery. With repeated 'operations' of this sort, she may produce fistulas and the vagina and bowel can become one passage.

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I personally would be shocked and horrified and disgusted beyond words to have that done on me or anyone, let alone my daughter.
My clitoris is still intact, and so are the insides and lips of my labia, thank you very much.i think they just pass the laser on the outer lips of the labia to let out a drop of blood or two, to fulfill religious requirements.No one in Malaysia needs to be restitched or whatever, for sex, delivery or anything.I've even had nightmares about the possibility of getting an episiotomy while i was pg and had told my gynae beforehand i didnt want one.

Thank you for clearing that up. I knew that there were certain area of Africa where extreme surgeries were performed but had read that it varied greatly.

I think much of the debate has centered around whether it is a surgery that is medically necessary. My opinion has always been that it was started as a religious ritual and that is the only reason for doing it, although the practice became more widespread in the US during the Victorian age during some strange attempt to prevent masturbation in young children (started by Dr. Kellogg - of the cereal family!). It has persisted as a common cultural phenomenon in the US ever since.

yes, my pleasure jabberwocky.

i understand from my dd's doctors that female circumcision is medically unnecessary. They also say its not necessary in Islam either. It's optional. But male circumcision in Islam is apparently not optional. Even a non-Muslim man marrying a Muslim has to get it done, apparently.

(am i opening a can of worms with this one?!!)

Being jewish I would have any son 'done' without question. However I am so useless I couldn't being to expain why. I rememeber from the previous thread lisalisa gave a fantastic elequont arguemnet to the reasoning behind the jewish tradition.

As an aside dh was done (late for medical reasons he is not jewish, but his dear mother has described everything in full detail ) And anyway we only had girls!!

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I am not Jewish but a Jewish friend explained it thusly: "A circumcision is considered to be the ultimate sacrifice to God, thereby showing the strength of one's faith."

That is very much how I felt when ds was circumcised. And before anyone asks why ds should suffer for MY sacrifice, the answer for me personally is that I gave in sacrifice the most precious thing in my life.

Arriving late here, but the short answer to monkeygirl's question is 'yes' both my sons are 'done'.

My reasons were/are that my DH is circumcised, and I prefer it. Also, as a children's nurse dealing with boys who have had, or need this operation, I have seen the blessed relief it can bring and the misery caused from avoiding it.

Circumcision gets a bad press in the UK. A lot of the things written are quite exaggerated and unjustified, This sways and frightens people who have no experience of it and this negative opinion grows.

Monkeygirl, I know you've settled your situation with dh and have decided against. But, should you change your mind, and for the benefit of others who may be worried, GA is not necessary at any age. If you go to;

www.circumcisions.co.uk

you can read details of how they circumcise boys of all ages with oral sedation- just to relax them plus a local injection. There are other references I can give who do much the same thing.

I could write a lot more but I don't want to start an argument with those who might not want to read it.

absolutely not - why would you? agree with aloha AND men who have been circumcised later in life tend to report decreased sensitivity!

WHy have all twigletts comments been withdrawn? she can't have been saying anything that terrible surely? seems a bit harsh.

Nothing to do with this thread, it's a long story though.

her posts were while ago so maybe its when she had a bit of a break?

My circumcised DH doesn't have a sensitivity problem. If he had any more sensitivityI would have a problem with him! LOL! According to my mum, my father (sadly, now dead) had a lifelong problem with his foreskin which didn't help their sex life. My brother still has his foreskin because the doctor wouldn't circumcise him when he was a baby and my mum asked for it. When he was 12 he had his appendix out and they were going to do it then. Instead they just STRETCHED his unretractable foreskin and made an ugly mess of it. SIL says they have problems and DB, like his father, is too shy to ask a doctor about it.