Dependent Drinkers and Alcoholics (recovering or active) Support Thread

[BrassicMonkey]

The last thread will close soon, but I want this one to be about everybody, not just me. So Hidesit, Earlgrey, SoSo and anyone else that needs support please post and keep me company.

I've lapsed again tonight, which is a shame as I hoped I'd be able to start this off on a postive note.

Link to the last thread.

Hi everyone. Well, I've managed 3 booze three days after a week of quite heavy drinking. The first two were really frigtening for me - it only takes about 4 glasses of wine for me to fit, so I carry on with it - because I like it and because I don't want to have a fit. Now I've run out of Diazepam (the stuff that stops you fitting) I know I can't drink again. But I'm worried about the weeked coming up, meeting up with friends and starting the whole flipping process again.

I've been seeing a psychiatrist for 2 years. He's a lovely man, but hey, after 2 years I'm still where I was when I started seeing him. I've been to about 4 AA meetings and found them terrifying, especially the steps one. And the last one I went to I went out for a fag, a man followed me out, told me he'd take me home and then took me out for an (alcoholic drink). And then asked me if I'd like to have an affair .... So that's one's out. There's an afternoon one close by that I can get to by bus but with school holidays looming that looks pretty impossible. And, like I said, I do find them terrifying ...

So, psychiatrist isn't working, AA isn't working, I fear I'm going to have to try and conquer this alone.

Jesus Earlgrey, what a horrible experience. THat's definitely not the norm in a meeting, but I assume that in a place full of alcoholics, there's always that chance of meeting one who's still drinking.

I'd say the best way to prevent that from happening again is to give AA helplione a call and let them know what happened to you. They can arrange for a 12th stepper (someone who'd done the programme and is in recovery) to take you around and maybe explain a wee bit about what everyone is talking about.

It is terrifying at first, people speak in these weird riddles and go on about things that yuou can't possibly comprehend at the beginning, it just takes time for it to sink in that's all.
Give it a chance, please call the helpline and they'll be more than happy to arrange for someone to take you about meetings at first. Then it's likely you'll meet friends of your own (just like BrassicMonkey), and you won't feel so excluded.

AA takes a while to work, you just have to keep at it. Even if you don't want to go, even if you hate admitting you're an alcoholic, by sitting there listening to what's being said you're taking the first steps towards recovery.

Sorry you're having trouble with fitting, that happened to me too and it's awful. Can you get your GP to prescribe more? I had librium, but it was a reducing does over a week, they don't like prescribing more than't necessary because they're really addictive to.

I wish you well.

kokeshi, he'd done his 12 steps. Was due to chair sometime that month. He had an orange juice!

Why Librium rather than Diazepam, just out of interest. Am rather keen not to ask for any more, as it just shows I still occasionaly go OTT and I don't want that on my medical records. X

That's a disgrace Earlgrey. He sounds like a predator. I was warned by some of the women in AA to stay away from the men but not because of anything like that. It was more about keeping emotions stable and not embarrassing yourself through being rejected leading to a relapse. I'm disgusted that someone could be so callous to buy you alcohol and keep their own sobriety and then try to offer support through an affair - it's evil.

Do you think you could tell someone else at the meeting what he did? Or phone the support line? It's really disturbing behaviour.

Earlgrey thats commonly referred to as 'thirteenth stepping' in the Fellowships, and sad to say there are people who behave that way (men and women) in every walk of life, including AA. He clearly still had a lot of work to do on himself, whatever he told you. Its one of the reasons that people are often told, when new, to stick with their own gender. Just till they are less vulnerable.

Brassic, you sound so confident compared to even a week ago - just makes me want to when I read your posts. Did you get my email? I'm so sorry I can't make tonight, as much for myself as anything because I was looking forward to it! Next week, for sure. xx

He told me not to tell the secretary of that particular group as he was 'well respected there', and since he also told me he'd had a 6 yr prison sentence reduced to 3, some of it for GBH, I really didn't want to. Plus he dropped me off home so he knows where I live.

Hi Elibean - I'll check emails in a minute. I'm about to leave in a minute so haven't got much time. Thinking that I'm going to meet you tonight has kept me out of the off-licence today and I have really relied on my AA telephone numbers. It's a shame that we won't meet but just thinking about it helped me a lot. So no worries. Hope everythings ok.

Earlgrey, I'm really angry about this. I understand why you feel your hands are tied, and that's making me more angry that he's putting you in that position. I'm probably not expressing myself well as I'm rushing to get there on time. I'll be thinking of you xx

BM, I've probably missed you now, but good luck - you sound like you'll be fine!!

Elibean - I really liked the meeting tonight. I felt so much more comfortable about walking up to the doors because of the absense of men. I don't know what this 'man-fear' is about but I think it's always been there. I just can't bear them looking at me.

I 'shared' at the meeting and it was ok. I was really worried about doing this but tonight I thought 'sod it' and just did it. So now I have my own copies of the 'Big Book' and a little '12 Step, 12 Traditions' book. I was too shy to ask about buying them before but because everyone knew I was a newcomer this time, they were given to me. It felt really nice to be a part of the meeting rather than just a bystander, and talking about my struggle to accept I'm an alcoholic and then chatting about it to other people has made things a bit clearer. I've been so fixated on units and habits, but I'd missed the bit about drinking for oblivion and losing a grip on reality - the important bit.

I can see an argument is brewing with EX-P about the amount of meetings I'm going to and me not wanting to tell him what's going on in them. He feels shut out of a new, major part of my life and from his POV I've swapped being pissed and selfish for being sober and selfish. On the one hand I've got everyone from AA telling me to pick up the phone instead of a drink (which I'm doing) and get to meetings daily, and on the other I've got him getting pissed off with me about it. I'm really trying to take on more responsibility with DS, get myself to and from meetings without his help and stay away from the first thought that leads to drink but I don't think it's about any of that. I think he's just miffed that I'm putting these mysterious meetings before everything else and he's insulted that I won't share what it's about with him. I have tried to tell him the format of the meetings but I'm not going to go into details about what's discussed because it's disloyal. I haven't been worthy of anyone's trust for a long time and it means a lot that I'm allowed to sit there and listen to things that are really private.

He works with a couple of blokes that are open about being in AA and keeps asking if I've seen them. I've no idea if I have or not as I don't know what they look like. Maybe part of it is that he's worried that they'll find out about me and take the piss out of him for it.

I'm ranting about this now as I think it's probably just one of those things and I can understand why it's happening. I just feel a bit pissed off with all the questions at the moment.

Hey BM, glad to hear you enjoyed the meeting and well done on your first share.

About the ex-p problem...this quite often happens in families because you start to see your relationships being redefined. Before you were quite dependent on him, and the relationship was that of a victim/rescuer. He'll be feeling like he's lost his role - as if you don't need him anymore and it's uncomfortable for him.

So, I'm going to bang on about Al-Anon again - this time for ex-p - because it really can help. As I said before, alcoholism is described as a "family disease" because the impact of it is quite far reaching. All those who've posted on this thread about having alcoholic parents/partners and siblings can testify to that.

He needs to have a bit of input himself. You definitely have to think about yourself first, but in order to avoid this kind of resentment building up, it's probably useful for you to talk to him about what you understand of the fellowship yourself. You can talk about general stuff, just not about people's personal stories. Give him to Big Book to read and allow him to understand just how vital - literally - Alcoholics Anonymous is for you now and for the foreseeable future.

Why not print out the thread, or only the posts from people on here who describe their own experiences? Give hime the number of Al-Anon, then it's up to himself to try to understand how much you need to do this right now.

I posted the Al-Anon link a couple of posts down. Al-Anon is for anyone who has a close relationship with an addict or alcoholic because it is "a support group that may continue for a long time, depending on how pervasively the addiction has affected their lives."

Al-Anon gives people the "skills of how to live, not how to live with an addicted person, but how to cope with the impact that addiction has on their lives,"

So what I'm trying to say is that by providing him with something, you'll be taking the pressure off yourself. You need to make your life as complication free as possible right now and arguments will just stress you out.

Take care.

x

Earlgrey...Librium and Valium are both benzodiazepines with long half lives so they'll tend to dampen down the effects of withdrawal for longer periods between doses. I'm not sure of the exact difference between them though.

I'm so sorry you had this experience; unfortunately there are people like that (AA is not immune), who will say anything to get their own way. The best way to judge someone's recovery (that sounds a bit crass, but I hope you know what I mean) is by observing them. You'll find there are people who are great examples who don't tell you how well they are doing, they just seem very serene and together. That's a good way to find a sponsor as well, as it happens. Listen closely to people you identify with.

I don't know what to suggest apart from just avoiding this meeting. I definitely recommend giving the helpline a call and ask for someone to accompany you. Mention you had a bad experience if you feel you want to, and just stick with your own gender.

Don't let this man put you off, you deserve as good shot at recovery just as much as the next person.

x

Hi all! I've just read your link about Disease Concept of Alcoholism, Kokeshi. It describes my friend very very well. Her behaviour became very strange after even a sniff of cider and she would become very paranoid then sort of think she had become invisible and would start shouting about as if nobody thought she was there and she would start stealing things she had no use or want for. It was very difficult to be with her when she was like this and it was nigh on impossible to find any help. When she did manage to stop drinking she was terribly fragile and thin and her legs would barely carry her tiny weight. You said ages ago Kokeshi that people with alcohol and eating problems have a very high death rate.

I think my aunt may have reached a point when she cannot really remember what she's been talking about. She sounds not too drunk.

I must go I'm being shouted at!

Thanks Kokeshi. I'll tell him about Al-Anon but I don't think he'll contact them. He's a typical man that won't go to the doctors if he's ill, won't make a phone call and won't talk about how he feels. Everything has to stay private. The idea of Al-Anon might make him give it a rest though.

I have just typed loads about how he is getting on my nerves at the moment, but I've deleted it because I know it sounds like I'm being an unreasonable, petty bitch. Which I am because I would feel the same if I were him.

I really want to call someone from AA and just let off some steam and have a rant about it without being judged but I can't because DS is stuck to me like glue.

I've got a meeting sorted for tonight and I'm getting buses there and a lift home. I've just told him and he's sulking because I don't know what time I'll be in and he can't go to bed until I'm here because he worries. He's stomping around and saying 'another late night for me then' under his breath.

He really is a nice bloke but at the moment he's being bloody childish.

Sorry, I also meant to say thanks for the tips about letting him read the litterature and possibly some of the posts on this thread - although even that feels a bit disloyal.

I'll offer these things but it's difficult when he won't admit what's pissing him off about this. I know he's confused about his part in this, especially because we haven't been seperated long and he is doing much more than most men would under these circumstances. That makes me feel controlled though and like I have to hero-worship him for his support. I think there's a panic element to this - both of us should have been trying to re-build our single lives but instead I'm building up a social/support network and he's been left with his evenings tied up for the next 3 months. It's the opposite to how it should have been as I'm the resident parent. I know it's really unfair and I feel like shit about it.

I'm happy for him to read what I've posted about my experiences...my home group is an open meeting, meaning that we welcome non-members of AA.

We've a wee lady of 82 who just joined our group 2 months ago and she brings her husband along for moral support. This woman amazes me because she's willing to tackle her problem so late in her life. 2 months on and she's like a different person - she bakes us home made biscuits every week!

You could suggest to him that if he wants you could go to an open meeting together (he probably wouldn't by the sounds of it, but it's the gesture that counts).

Hellobello, it was a professional in the Priory Eating Disorder Clinic that gave me those statistics about the prognosis of patients with a dual diagnosis. While the mortality rate is high, it's not impossible to recover. I have first hand experience.

Kokeshi have you ever thought about changing your profession as I just feel people really 'need' you. You are so inspiring in your posts and so knowledgeable about stuff. Don't normally say this sort of thing but you have so much to give to people.

Hi. Kind of want to change the font to very, very tiny as I feel so ashamed of myself and my recent posts on here. . BM you're doing so, so, unbelievably well, and the rest of you guys are being so supportive. Well done all. (Echo flowertops post btw kokeshi). Not sure where I am with things really. Some progress I suppose, if small steps. Hang in there all, big hugs.

Well done Kokeshi! I think I'm going to stop drinking soon. It's becoming nothing more than boring and I am boring.

Glad you're back Cubby. I think one of the most important lessons I've had to learn is to forgive myself. Please try to forgive yourself Cubby. I'm sure that if a dear friend of yours came to you and they were terrified and their life felt dreadful, you'd probably give them a big hug. It's important to try and do it to ourselves too.

I drank a bottle of wine last night and really didn't need it. I think I was 'testing' myself. What an idiot am I.

kokeshi - thank you so much for the link to Al-anon. I had heard of it and had considered going a while back. I think I might arrange to go with my mother-in-law at some point. I think we could probably do with going.

BM - sounds like things are going well for you. I feel a little ashamed about it but I sometimes act like your ex-p. In the beginning my husband went to lots of meetings and my mother in law would keep me company and help with the baby (who was then just a few weeks old.) Of course as things progressed and our son settled down she stopped coming so much. Now and again I would feel really annoyed about the meetings. Irrational, because I was really proud of him and would be even more annoyed if he didn't go.

It is hard to describe how I felt then. But curiously every now and again I feel very aggrieved that my husband has to go to AA. I feel annoyed with him for having to go it is such a selfish and childish reaction.

But, when he comes back from the meeting I am full of admiration for him and the selfish feelings disappear. He comes back full of motivation. Your ex-p sounds like he is struggling with the same feelings as I. He is probably very, very proud of you.

Hi all, glad I've posted something useful, but I'm only passing on what was given to me so can't really take any credit for it!

How are you BM? Every day presents new problems, so don't worry if you're having a shite time, just post anyway. I hope everyone feels able to post as honestly as possible.

It's great to see so many people coming on here and being honest, I'm glad to be a part if it.

Hi everyone

Cubby, it's nice to hear from you again. Please don't feel ashamed. Take care xx

oyu, I don't think your (or EX-P's) reaction is childish or selfish really. It's natural and I know I'd feel the same. It's just so hard to explain to him how important it is to not rock the boat - but it's still all 'me me me' and that makes me feel like shit. We've spoken about Al-Anon tonight and he admitted that he knows about them already because he confided in a colleague about me, and they recommended that he goes to his own meetings. He doesn't want to though - surprise surprise! He'd rather hear it through me, but I don't think I've got it in me to be sensitive about this. He thinks I started drinking because I was unhappy in our relationship (we only seperated recently) and I apparantly said this to him when I was drunk (I don't remember). I tried to explain that I was bonkers when I was drunk and how I'm learning that I've used every excuse available to justify my drinking - every excuse except 'I'm an alcoholic'. I tried to give examples of other mad things that went through my head and he got really upset about it. I know he's really suffering, probably more now than he was when I was drinking - I suppose he feels redundant now. I just don't know what to say to him.

Hi Kokeshi. I haven't got round to offering him a sample of this thread yet. I don't know if you remember this, but I am absolutely physically exhausted and emotionally overwhelmed. I am really beginning to get it now, and I keep being told that it's going to be a fantastic journey of self-discovery that will change me into a better person but...I am so scared of what I'm going to uncover about myself. At the beginning of the week I was just listening and not really relating. That's changed now and I've built up a nice network of 'sisters' and I'm talking about things that are so painful and embarrassing and I'm really learning that I don't like anything about myself. I'm confused that all these nice people who I respect so much (and many of them took their drink problem further than me) are interested in spending time with me, and I want to warn them off because I think they're going to discover that I'm a hideous person underneath. There is so much being said around the rooms that I'm nodding away too but I'm still trying to hide from everyone.

I've read the 'Just for Today' card so many times today and I feel like such a horrible person for failing to do anything on that card even though I've been sober and at meetings for a week. I'm petrified of being pushed too hard and I keep telling myself that I've got to keep it in today, but I say it to myself and then I drift off into this nightmare daydream where I'm bearing my soul to someone in Step 4, or being told by my sponsor that I'm ready to chair a meeting . I feel in turmoil tonight. I'm exhausted but I can't sleep.

Today someone did something really, really nice for me. They took me shopping and introduced me to Primark (ok, I know it's not everyone's cup of tea). They sat outside a changing room in this boiling hot weather while I tried on bundles of clothes and slagged off every part of my body. Most of the clothes went back on the shelves afterwards but I did get a few tops to wear for meetings. I'm really emotional at the moment and I'm grateful to be crying. I'm really ashamed of the state I'm in physically. It was so hot today and I had nothing suitable to wear, so I was at a meeting in Chelsea this afternoon in a fucking wooly cardigan, navy t-shirt, bra that's too small, kickers that keep sliding down and dirty jeans (dirty because I was at a meeting on Saturday night and hadn't had time to wash and dry them). I was so hot and embarrassed.

I feel better after letting some of that out.

I've got meetings arranged up until (and including) Friday, and I'm a bit proud of myself for completing my first week of 90 in 90. It hasn't been easy at all, which is why I'm a bit pissed off with EX-P for being cross with me. I don't want to tell him how low I feel because it will just bring him down too. I just don't want him to ask about it because getting there is about all I can manage at the moment.

You're doing really well Brassic. I've been watching this thread (never sure what to post) for quite a while and was so sad and frustrated for you when it looked like things were all going out of control again after your month of being sober.

Hang in there please! Do this for yourself and let your ex worry about himself. He's been so supportive - no wonder it's scary for him to think he might not be as "needed" - but that's not a good reason to stay an alcoholic! You need to look after yourself - you deserve a happy life and a good relationship with your son and it's within your grasp now. Don't let go!

I (and loads of others) are rooting for you every day.

Kits

Hey BM,

I know exactly what you mean about the emotional and physical exhaustion, as well as being an exciting time of self-discovery, the part where you have to open yourself up and be vulnerable is terrifying. I also found it quite humiliating?again feelings of self disgust and who I had become.

The good news is that as you go on, you actually realise that all that the person you became when you were drinking, wasn?t really you at all ? it was your illness. Alcoholism robs us of ourselves, and the empty shell left over is just the starting point.

OK, I don?t know you but off the top of my head, just from reading your posts, I can tell you are intelligent, articulate, self-aware, considerate, kind and thoughtful. If you?re not happy with the way you look now (I was swollen like a blimp), then you?ll be astonished how many people will soon say to you that you?re looking fantastic. It?s not just a physical difference when newcomers start getting on with AA, it?s a change in their whole demeanour, and it?s amazing.

The AA members who?re sticking with you right now are doing so because they get it ? they?ve been there, someone helped them and in turn, they?re helping themselves. Someone told me when I came in (imagine wee Glasgow woman) ?Don?t worry hen, we?ll love ye, till ye kin love yersel?. That made me cry. Like you I thought if these people found out what I?ve done and what I?m like they?ll run for the hills. But they didn?t.

As for the Just for Today card ? it?s a set of suggestions, it?s not a work schedule and if you?re feeling up to it, or are at a loss as to what to do with yourself, then consult it. No biggie. Your priority right now is to go to meeting, sit and listen, try to get identification, and don?t lift the first drink. I think that?s enough to be going on with.

The ?racing brain? is common, and it?s a lot to do with how your brain chemistry is changing right now ? it?s been so used to having been dampened down by drink that it?s going ten to the dozen. What happens over time is that these extra alcohol receptors will gradually disappear but some of the time that you experience physical craving (agigation, irritability, insomnia -even after weeks or months of drinking) it could be due to that. That?s not official AA stuff, but I wanted to understand exactly how my body works.

The programme is there for you when you are ready ? you don?t have to do anything before then. Before Step 4 and 5 come Steps 1, 2 and 3 which lay down the foundation and prepare you for that so don?t worry about any of the individual steps on their own, they?re designed to follow on from each other.

Lastly, regarding your ex-p, the suggestions you have given him are all that you can do for him at the moment, if he?s not willing to act then he can?t expect to understand. It works exactly the same way as AA. Maybe if he talks to his colleague he?ll get a better understanding of what he can do for himself. To be honest, you can?t explain something to him you don?t really understand yourself?you?re right at the beginning and all you have is the word of AA members. You?re having to make a leap of faith and trust them, so essentially you?re only asking him to do the same thing for you.

I hope you have a great day.

I didn't go to al anon but still supported dp in my way.

Thanks Kits

Kokeshi, that was a lovely post. Thank you.

It was so odd to have sad emotions last night and to let the tears out without alcohol. I've almost cried a few times this week but I've been with other people and have pulled myself together at the tearful stage. It was such a relief to just let the emotion out, and it felt like I was being kind to myself - odd and soppy, I know.

I know I'm right at the beginning of this journey and I've only had a taste of what's to come. I don't like what I'm learning about myself though and it's the things that were there before the heavy drinking that I'm most scared of facing up to. At least I had an excuse when I was drunk, but how am I supposed to forgive myself for my sober actions.

It feels like a choice where I have 3 options:

1 - Go back to drink. Continue drinking more and more, stretch my tolerance to alcohol further and lose everything including the small amounts of pride, self respect and dignity that I've got left.

2 - Stop drinking and sit here with all the guilt and shame and horror of what I have done. Don't get better but don't get worse.

3 - Go to meetings and face up to it. Accept that I have a disease and that I'm fundamentally flawed and make myself do things that seem impossible.

It's not a choice, I know.

I woke up feeling crap this morning. I was so tired. I got a call from a woman I met a week ago. We exchanged numbers and I promised to call her, but I didn't because I felt so inferior and was sure she was laughing at me - I didn't see her laughing and she was cuddling me and offering to go for a coffee after a meeting. So she called today because she realised I wasn't going to call her. It means such a lot to have people do that but I wish I had something to chat about except how miserable I am, how insecure I feel and how much I hate myself and want to drown it out with a bottle.

I'm not sure if I should be posting like this really. I know this has moved on from 'person who drinks too much' to 'sick person who needs years of therapy'. I'm really sorry, I didn't know it was going to turn out like this.