Pro vaxx vs anti vaxx

[Tleigh]

Hello, I was looking for different opinions regarding vaccinations. Who vaccinated and why and who doesn't vaccinate and why?

I've read previous posts similar and then have gotten quite heated so I ask for your stance on vaccinations and the reason why (and possibly links and research to accompany this) and that's it. Once you have commented please don't question anyone's opinions or anyone's choices. I don't want this thread to turn into a pro vaxx/anti vaxx argument.

TIA
Xx

@chantico ah, thanks for clearing that up. Seems they were both lucky for not having had complications, too!

Longone
In the 1960s in the lead up to vaccination over 900 children in the uk died in a decade. There is a much higher mortality rate in children who had measles within the last 3 years.

measles deaths since 1940

sorry link

Good link bruffin, showing measles occurrence and death rates steadily decling before the vaccines were introduced.

Just talk to your GP if you are worried. They know how these things work... and don't believe the anti-vax crap and the autism crap.. darryl-cunningham.blogspot.co.uk/2010/05/facts-in-case-of-dr-andrew-wakefield.html worth a read

There was not a decline in occurance of measles before 1968 when vaccine was introduced. The biggest epidemic in thosr figures were 1961 , still around 900 deaths in the decade prior to the introduction .
The decline in measles is after 1968 and then again after 1988 when mmr was introduced.

The number of deaths in 1961 were relatively small, and the figures from the early 40s are unreliable as they coincided with WW2, when notifications would have been under reported. Look at the number of deaths per number of notifications from 1940 onwards. That's more interesting than number of deaths in the 10 years prior to 1968, but even so, the number of deaths in the decade prior to that were almost double those in the decade prior to 1968, so numbers of deaths were clearly declining.

I believe vaccinations are important. Not going to preach to you. Just tell you my own experience.

I had measles when I was 6 months old. This turned into viral encephalitus. I almost died. Encephalitus has left me with various problems that I still have over 40 years later. In my opinion not vaccinating your children can be dangerous.

Don't take mine or anyone elses word for it. Do your own research.

The doctor who linked MMR and autism has been struck off and his research disproved.

The main think the reductions in deaths from the 1940s onwards was the introduction of antibiotics.

The numbers of cases remained at several hundred thousand a tear (somewhat cyclical over 2-3 years and of course greater in the years when the baby boomers were aged up to about 5-9, after which the population of those who had not been exposed to the illness began to decline.

The number of cases began a gentle decline from the late 1960s (eg the peaks were eradicated) but take up was quite low to begin with. But the disease continued to kill hundreds of people a year. As it became more the norm the number of cases declined, as did the number of deaths and when you get to under 1000 cases per year you may nit see deaths at all.

Though as noted at the bottom of those figures, if you have measles with SSPE you might not die until years if not decades after the acute infection. AFAIK, there have been no cases of SSPE arising from vaccination strains.

During 2013, 10,271 cases of measles were reported within the European Union. Eight people developed measles encephalitis (infection of the brain), and three died.
There is still a death rate of around one in 3000.

I vaccinated my children--it was the right thing to do. The only one I even wavered on was rotavirus, because I as a caregiver have a bowel condition that meant if I caught it I could become seriously ill, and once I spoke with my specialists I got that one done too.

OP, if you are still reading, you might find 'Immunity' by Eula Biss interesting--it looks into the moral implications of vaccination in a fairly even-handed way. If you asked me if I think you should vaccinate your children, the answer would be "absent any previous severe reactions, or known allergies to the ingredients, yes", but it's not up to me.

OP, do you have a plan for when your child grows up and goes out into the world as an adult with no immunity whatsoever to any of the diseases currently vaccinated against?

Are you happy for your son to be at risk of becoming infertile if he contracts mumps?

Are you happy for a daughter to risk a pregancy if she contracts rubella?

Are you happy for any child of yours to risk lifelong paralysis if they visit a country where polio is rife?

Or even vulnerable to diseases such as chickenpox, which are relatively mild for a child but have devastating complications if caught as an adult?

Is this truly your idea of how best to protect your children?

so, you are linking to a closed Facebook parenting site with some fairly authoritarian rules of conduct. What is the this groups stance on vaccination?

Shes spammed Mn with it

I think it’s a case of out of sight, out of mind for some anti vaxers. Herd immunity means many won’t have first hand experience of seeing someone suffer with measles, mumps etc.
If there’s an outbreak- there will undoubtedly be lots of scrambling around to source vaccines and demand will outstrip supply so those unvaccinated will remain exposed.
I practised for 8 years as a pharmacist and unfortunately pharmas can’t just quickly manufacture more when demand for medicines and vaccines increases unexpectedly. Medicines and vaccines are often out of stock with a several month delay.
My DD was exposed to measles at our Drs surgery at 8 weeks old. Localised outbreaks of measles aren’t that uncommon and it’s hideously contagious and particularly dangerous in under ones.
Given my medical background it goes without saying I vaccinate my DD.

"if they visit a country where polio is rife?"
I do believe there are mandatory travel vaccinations for countries where disease is rife. I have never been able to travel to Egypt as it requires yellow fever vaccination which I can't have due to severe reaction to a previous vaccination with similar components.
Generally, parents who don't vaccinate their kids are concerned about the overload on their tiny child (or autism , whether or not there's an actual link), or because they know someone who has had a severe adverse reaction. People who don't think twice about it usually don't share their concerns, don't believe there's a link with autism (or might believe there is but "rather have an autistic child than a dead one"), and don't have experience of a relative or friend suffering a severe adverse reaction..

Or even vulnerable to diseases such as chickenpox, which are relatively mild for a child but have devastating complications if caught as an adult?

Duration of immunity to cpox from vaccination isn't yet known, but estimated at around 20 years. This means that in the UK, people vaccinated in childhood may be more susceptible to catching it as an adult (as only the minority who want to pay for it actually give it to their kids) unless they get a booster shot in adulthood, which kind of defeats the purpose of the vaccine, surely? In other countries it has been included in routine vaccs to help minimise this issue...

voice why does (potentially) needing a booster shot defeat the purpose of the CP vaccine? The individual will still have immunity which is what vaccinating sets out to achieve.

How many adults do you know that go for booster mumps/rubella vaccinations?

There is no evidence whatsover thst anyone needs a rubella booster. We have a handful of cases a year in the uk, which are mainly imported.
Even if vaccines wain, they still tend to provide protection, i think in the case of mumps they found that teenagers in a university outbreak had mild cases with none of the serious side effects and that was in teenagers wh hadnt had the booster.

why does (potentially) needing a booster shot defeat the purpose of the CP vaccine? The individual will still have immunity which is what vaccinating sets out to achieve.

Well if the immunity from the vaccine only lasts 20 years (which is still an unknown,) then after 20 (or however many) years they are unlikely to be immune. My point is, how many adults go out and get booster shots for anything, unless it's a travel requirement?
Rubella protects girls for 15-20 years, so then in their childbearing years they are potentially no longer protected. This is why all pregnant women (including those vaccinated in childhood) are tested for rubella immunity, and advised to get vaccinated after their current pregnancy but before the next. If it gave lifelong immunity then they would have no need to test vaccinated women. Women don't just pop out for a rubella booster 15-20 years after vaccination. Nobody mentions it until you are actually pregnant and at risk.

There is no evidence whatsover that anyone needs a rubella booster.

Says whom?! Women are tested in pregnancy and told to get a booster if they are no longer immune, to protect them during future pregnancies.

Thats only if for some reason they are immune.
But there is very little rubella circulating in the uk ( because the vaccine works) No laborarity confirmed cases in jul _ sep 2017 out of 60 tested. We have no evidence that rubella needs a 2nd booster.

Well if the immunity from the vaccine only lasts 20 years (which is still an unknown,) then after 20 (or however many) years they are unlikely to be immune.

Estimates of duration of immunity are limited by the time the vaccine was implemented.

For example, we used to get boosters for yellow fever and now it's considered as "for life".

About measles, from the CDC:
"CDC considers people who received two doses of measles vaccine as children according to the U.S. vaccination schedule protected for life, and they do not ever need a booster dose. Adults need at least one dose of measles vaccine, unless they have evidence of immunity."