Experiences of parents with unvaccinated babies/ children

[Mumsey2017]

Hi there,

I'm a first time mum who lives in Kent and my DS will be coming up for 8 weeks. After quite a bit of research (and prayer might I add) my husband and I are leaning towards not giving our son any of his vaccinations at all or at least as early as 8 weeks.

I'm interested to specifically hear from parents who have older babies and children that are unvaccinated. What have your experiences been of not vaccinating your child? What has their general health been like? Have you have to isolate them at all/ be careful where you went? Do any attend nursery or school? Do nurserys even take unvaccinated children (excuse my ignorance lol)? Have they been more susceptible to illnesses or caught anything major? If you feel able to share, what were your reasons for not vaccinating?

If anyone is able to share their views on any or all of these questions - would be interested in hearing from you.

Many thanks

"Oh Bert, if you could see that man now and see him as he was before his vaccinations, you wouldn't ask"

Yes I would.

Even if there was some tiny risk of autism are people saying the'd prefer a dead child or a child with a life time of chronic pain and disability to autism?

There is no risk of autism. It's a pointless argument. There's no need to debate whether autism or death is worse because that's not the issue here.

This is a seriously dodgy tack to take to try and convince people to vaccinate their children.

I don't believe there is a risk of autism purple, I'm just shocked that people who think there is are so upset about autism they'd choose death or severe physical disability. I'm not debating, I'm curious.

I've worked with families who have severely autistic children and it's a bloody hard, and can easily be as awful as a severe physical disability.

You're seriously confusing the issue by bringing autism vs disease damage into the argument and underestimating how bad autism can be.

However, I know Robert was not born with autism.

You cannot know that. It's a simple fact that autism very often becomes evident at around the age when children are commonly vaccinated, which is why the myth of a connection grew up. The reports on Robert Fletcher's case say that he is not autistic, and the ruling stated that the findings did not apply to autism. The tribunal was also very clear that it should not be seen as a precedent for any other case.

Well, if he does not have autism now, then yes, you can be sure that he was not born with the condition.

It is heart breaking that there are still so many flat earthers about, what would it actually take for evidential logic to kick in?

However, I know Robert was not born with autism.

But there are underlying conditions that are not apparent until there is a fever ie Dravets disease, which is why the neurologist on the appeal panal said what he did.

Well I disagree purple. Everyone has said autism is not linked to vaccines but the myth still persists. I think it's actually very helpful to ask people who think autism is a risk if they'd prefer an out break of old now nearly eradicated illness.

Respectfully, you're wrong.

Why not ask people would they prefer an outbreak of measles or their children to have Down's syndrome? Or any other condition that is not linked to vaccines?

Some parents in dark moments with their disabled children had died rather than been left as they are. You can't presume to know what it's like to have an autistic child and asserting that it's not as bad as problems caused by getting measles (or whatever) is not at all helpful in the vaccination debate. You're indulging those people who say that autism is caused by vaccines.

I think in time there will be an increased understanding of the individually rare causes of some developmental / neurological disorders, in particular of why some cause deterioration bit by bit over time. (hence being likely to look like "this happened to my child then that happened so they must be linked"). For example a number of metabolic disorders allow a child to manage ok normally but they have little reserve to cope with illness which is when trouble can start. (i've done a little training and some research that highlights that sort of thing)

To the OP - I assume that your prayer has been for guidance in your decision making. I would encourage you to maintain that and I hope that some of the posts on this thread help provide some of that guidance.

The one suggestion I would make, that you could consider in conjunction with your GP, is that the UK infancy vaccination schedule is a relatively fast one. I think that is for both historical reasons and to provide better full vaccination coverage - 2, 3, 4 months you remember all doses more readily than 2, 4, 6 months that is often used elsewhere. You may be able to plan for 2, 4 and 6 months instead - I did that with my eldest as I was still very familiar with hte Australian system at that point and due to a family and personal history of vaccine reactions was nervous. But get that first dose in and get your child protected!

no, respectfully you're wrong and the majority of antivaxxers aren't parents of autistic children so they're not basing it on that personal experience of struggling but on something they read on an out of date website selling them sage capsules.

You're totally missing my point baby. Have you met any severely autistic children?

Vaccines don't cause autism. Asking people if they'd prefer their child to be autistic or physically disabled after an illness that could be prevented by vaccination is totally unhelpful.

Both my dc are vaccinated but I loathe the aggression and the arrogance of the people who spout on about ''anti-vaxxers''.

As seen in Romania recently, take-up rate fall below 95% despite all of the insistence that ONLY foolishness and idiocy would prevent somebody vaccinating their child. So clearly that approach isn't working. Instead health organisations need to finally address parents' concerns in a more respectful way. ie the situation with Dr Andrew Wakefield mightn't have been his finest hour but the crux of his claims were that a very small subset might have a higher predisposition to reacting badly.

Until we fully understand autism and epigenetics, which we don't, not yet, then it's not logical to offer 100% guarantee that there is no link.

It's the anti vaxxers who link autism and vaccines. Any rational human knows they're not linked but trying to explain that to a rampant anti vaxxer is a feeling akin to repeatedly banging your head off a brick wall.
The problem with anti vaxxers is that they've read utter bullshit on the internet and are all about their "rights" without actually considering anyone else's rights or the responsibility to contribute towards herd immunity in order to better protect those who can't be immunised or have compromised immunity.
I have 2 possibly 3 kids with autism, I've also met severely autistic children and their parents. I'm sick fed up of trying to persuade people that autism and vaccines aren't linked.

I get your point. I disagree with you. Can't be the first time though someone has disagreed with you?

Such arrogance.

It's not ''rational'' to be so certain there's no link. Come back in 20 years when there is total and absolute understanding of epigenetics.

IIRC, The Disneyland measles outbreak was traced to a single 7yo boy who had travelled from SoCal to Switzerland. There are regular measles outbreaks almost every year in Germany and Eastern Europe. Much of Europe herd immunity is lower than in UK or USA.

I'd suggest you go and educate yourself about what autism can actually be like before saying stuff like this...
I'm just shocked that people who think there is are so upset about autism they'd choose death or severe physical disability.

Scenario 1

You live in Kent, easy access to routine vaccinations, long established vaccination program and high herd immunity, little exposure to effects of disease. You don't feel threatened.

You ponder and mull over whether you should get your infant vaccinated.

Scenario 2

You live in Liberia.

Would you vaccinate your infant?

Brogadoccio, Andrew Wakefield's paper came out almost 20 years ago. During that period many very reputable scientists have worked long and hard to establish whether there is a link between autism and vaccines, and simply haven't found the evidence of it.

Yes, it's possible that developments in science might make us change our minds - but do you want to risk thousands of lives on that chance?

My uncle died of polio at the age of 18 months back in the 1930's. My grandma never got over it. No amount of praying will cure a sick child or the others they might infect - because this isn't just about yours. Don't be so bloody stupid - protect your children.

I have vaccinated my children.

In each case, they became ill with the usual "childhood" problems of eczema and reflux etc. My niece had the same experience. We have suffered chronic ear problems and allergies since.

Of course this proves NOTHING. I know that. But I have this horrible and niggling doubt in my mind about giving young children so many vaccines at once. There is an effect on their immune system.

I often post on vaccine threads, to much ridicule I should add, that there is insufficient evidence and research about the volume and number of vaccines given to very young children.

When my third baby came along, I chose to delay some of the vaccines and spread them out a bit. (There is for example some research showing less onset of asthma if certain vaccines are delayed)

I really would like to see a lot more research done in this area as it's not at all clear to me that the current vaccination schedule is safe. And I do believe vaccines are by and large very beneficial.

Not going to fight Daisy it's a lovely day, feel free to argue someone with else