Some reasons why vaccination should be questioned.

[Spidermama]

This isn't meant to cause a flare up but rather to put wome points across which rarely get aired in the usual run of things....

1. Micro-organisms (bacteria, viruses, fungi, parasites) do NOT cause diseases. They aid the cleaning-up process of healing.

1. Most micro-organisms associated with seriuos illnesses live within healthy people without causing any symptoms at all.

1. All so-called infectious diseases are the result of a toxic condition within the organ of the whole body (i.e. dis-ease.) The symptoms relate to the elimination effort by the body to return back to health.

1. Susceptibility to disease depends solely on the state of health of the body, NOT on the exposure to micro-organisms.

1. Natural immunity is not disease-specific; one does not need to have come in touch with all diseases in order to gain immunity against them.

1. The presence of antibodies is NOT an indication of immunity. They are only a small part of the blood immune response.

1. No vaccine containing 'pure' micro-organisms elicits an immune response. Only when a toxin is added to the vaccine does the body respond to it.

1. An unvaccinated child is NOT an unprotected child; it still has its natural immunity. Besides, trying to protect from soemthing that is not the cause is inappropriate.

1. The Lancet (12 Jan 1980) reported that the BCG vaccine, against TB, showed no evidence of protection but rtahter an increase in cases of TB.

10. Government statistics shwo that death rates of ALL infectious diseases have drastically fallen BEFORE the introduction of specific vaccinations. (Smallpox deaths rose by approx 275% immediately after the smallpox vaccination was enforced.)

HOWEVER... if you believe that vaccination gives you protection against infectious diseases, then it should not matter to you whether somebody else has been vaccinated or not.

(Compiled by Patrick Quanten, MD. Independent Health Advisor.)

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Ok, I feel completely out of my depth and unable to comment.

Sorry but vaccinations have saved countless lives across the world. Many children who have not been lucky to have been vaccinated have died or been subject to debilitating disabilities.

I love the fact that my dd is protected from
Measles
Mumps
Rubella
Polio
Various forms of meningitis
Diptheria
Typhoid

Looking forward to her being protected from HPV (and therefore cervical cancer)

These diseases are real and they kill children across the world every day. Vaccinations aren't perfect but they have had a huge impact on cutting deaths caused by these diseases.

Where have you learnt all this from?.

Is that last pronouncement after point 10 yours or his?.

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I haven't done this for ages: Parp
(and surely it's adviser?)

They are his words Attila, and I'm glad he has said it so well because I often struggle to be understood on the matter.

More info here from the same man. You have to go to the drop down menu for the section 'Vaccination. A critical look.'

Hi Socci.

Yes but the reason we don't have many of these diseases in the west anymore is because we have a vaccination programme
50 years ago kids were dying all over the shop-- when we had good sanitation and diets, but no vaccination programme.
It's not as simple as saying 'well we don't live in the 3rd world so we don't have to worry about it'.

Also i would never have taken my dd to thailand or morocco if she hadn't been vaccinated.

Bluejelly 'Yes but the reason we don't have many of these diseases in the west anymore is because we have a vaccination programme'

Can I refer you to point 10 on the original post?

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Um, having done an MSc in Immunology point 7 is utterly wrong. The body recognises antigens (bits of protein from the bug/virus) and raises an immune response to those. When bacteria release toxins, the body's response is usually an inflammatory one.

The 'natural' immunity you refer to is the first defense barrier immunity - nasal hair and mucosa, skin etc. They provide a first line defense for infection, which may be enough to protect the body from bacteria/viruses/fungi encountered on a day-day basis. For more virulent infections, the second, anitgen-specific immune response is also required, which is what vaccination attempts to mimic.

Improved standards of living/hygene definitely promoted a drop in infection rates before the introduction of community vaccination programmes. Even so, but there are some diseases that still require vaccination, e.g. Tetanus.

I knew that socci.

Thank you for pointing that out Spidermama, I wondered who said that.

I will look at the further info you have provided although I would put my hand up and write that I am sceptical of these claims he has made.

I would like you to read www.quackwatch.org for another viewpoint. You will disagree no doubt with its content but there are important points being made there, of that I have no doubt. My main concern is that many people with serious illness are misled and in cases harmed by some practices that these people promote. People have been taken in and have come to harm or even death by various charlatan practices. How would that charge be answered?.

I would have to disagree in particular with his last pronouncement underneath point 10.

And rabies, Highlander .

Did you see the Channel 5 programme 'The Girl Who Survived Rabies' last night?

She has moderate impairments two years on, and it's not known if these are the result of the virus's effect on her brain or the deep coma she was placed in to try to save her life.

I see from the link you posted that he also promotes ear candling.

"I'm glad he has said it so well because I often struggle to be understood on the matter."

I beg to disagree... all this can be complete and utter nonsence or scientifically correct and the average person wouldn't know, unless they have studied some form of medicine or microbiology or similar.

My mum is hard of hearing in one ear as the result of measles she suffered as a child. Two children in her class died. She's 65.

A good friend of mine is completely blind and deaf in one year as a result of measles that went into meningitis. He's in his 50s.

My dad still VIVIDLY remembers polio outbreaks in the 1940s.

No-one should ever contract polio again. There is a wonderful effective safe and cheap vaccine available which gives as near to 100% immunity as is possible.
It's a crying shame that kids in west africa and the indian subcontinent are still contracting such an awful disease.
The reason we don't have it in the west is because of our vaccination progs.

I dare any scientist/doctor type to disagree with this.

Blue
did you catch 'The Girl Who Survived Rabies' last night?

They followed an American doctor to Manila, where the man spends every holiday volunteering.

SO many people still dying of rabies it's truly awful and saddening.

In Thailand, too.

Big slums + lots of stray dogs, it seems.

Horrible and shocking!

Expat my thoughts exactly!
Was just thinking wether I or anyone I know is living quite happily with viruses such as rabies or polio?
Also as a person that does believe vaccination has a very important role to play it does matter to me if other people are unvaccinated against diseases which my young baby hasn't yet had a chance to receive a vaccine for!

Actually bluejelly the only reported incidents of polio recently have come from the live vaccine.

I can still remember the terrible rheumatic pains I had in my knees when I had measles, I must have only been 3 or 4. my GP "didn't believe" in vaccinations..

lol @ ear candles

Spidermama - polio is still endemic in the population of the indian sub continent and sub saharan Africa

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