Some reasons why vaccination should be questioned.

[Spidermama]

This isn't meant to cause a flare up but rather to put wome points across which rarely get aired in the usual run of things....

1. Micro-organisms (bacteria, viruses, fungi, parasites) do NOT cause diseases. They aid the cleaning-up process of healing.

1. Most micro-organisms associated with seriuos illnesses live within healthy people without causing any symptoms at all.

1. All so-called infectious diseases are the result of a toxic condition within the organ of the whole body (i.e. dis-ease.) The symptoms relate to the elimination effort by the body to return back to health.

1. Susceptibility to disease depends solely on the state of health of the body, NOT on the exposure to micro-organisms.

1. Natural immunity is not disease-specific; one does not need to have come in touch with all diseases in order to gain immunity against them.

1. The presence of antibodies is NOT an indication of immunity. They are only a small part of the blood immune response.

1. No vaccine containing 'pure' micro-organisms elicits an immune response. Only when a toxin is added to the vaccine does the body respond to it.

1. An unvaccinated child is NOT an unprotected child; it still has its natural immunity. Besides, trying to protect from soemthing that is not the cause is inappropriate.

1. The Lancet (12 Jan 1980) reported that the BCG vaccine, against TB, showed no evidence of protection but rtahter an increase in cases of TB.

10. Government statistics shwo that death rates of ALL infectious diseases have drastically fallen BEFORE the introduction of specific vaccinations. (Smallpox deaths rose by approx 275% immediately after the smallpox vaccination was enforced.)

HOWEVER... if you believe that vaccination gives you protection against infectious diseases, then it should not matter to you whether somebody else has been vaccinated or not.

(Compiled by Patrick Quanten, MD. Independent Health Advisor.)

Kathy it's the 'shall we say' attitude I find unconvincing.

bubonic plague defoo does still exsist. It tends not to be as much of an issue now in the West since our homes are not so rat infected. It can also be treated with antibiotics (since it is cause by the bacteria Yersinia Pestis)

I'm sure you find my attitude extremely irritating, Spidermama.

He declares western medicine as a sect and resigned as a medical doctor in 2001 according to this statment

err so why does he still use the letters MD after his name .

Just rather ill informed and unecessarily taunting in its nature Kathy.

It's as if you feel you're on the winning side (in terms of numbers) so that's all that's imortant. You can make fun of all sorts of things you don't understand but appear to feel under no pressure to put forward proper information.

Then people will belive what he says Skribble!. I guess he can still use it as he resigned he wasn't struck off.

Well Spidermama, I don't intend to taunt you, and I'm sorry if it feels that way. My focus was on this man and what he is saying.

I see the original post as misinformed and perhaps a little bit of a taunt., certainly not proper information.

Funny how he has such contempt for western medicine but still wants the kudos of having MD after his name, funny that.

I appreciate that not all microorganisms cause disease, and that coming into contact with microorganisms won't necessarily make you ill. I also appreciate that your overall state of health can influence your susceptibility to infection, but to go from this to "Micro-organisms (bacteria, viruses, fungi, parasites) do NOT cause diseases" is a leap too far surely?
And "They aid the cleaning-up process of healing." How? Are we referring to "pathogenic" mocroorgansims here, because that strikes me as odd. Or is it the "good bacteria", gut flora etc?

It seems to me that there is a lot of extrapolation going on here.

Oh regarding the smallpox vaccination data, I think some explanation is helpful.

Smallpox, before it was erradicated, killed around 10% of the people that it infected. It left the survivours with extensive scarring, and sometimes caused blindness and other problems.

Vaccination was never carried out unless there was an outbreak of the disease. So it is misleading to link raising numbers of deaths ti vaccination, since the rising numbers were due to there being an active epidemic. Medics effectivly 'ring fenced' every reported case, and in doing so, since there is no animal reservoir of this condition, erradicated the condition.

For those of you interested in this sort of trivis the last 'wild' case of smallpox occued in Mr Ali Mallik Moi (sp unsure) from Somalia. Thankfully he survived.

A woman reseracher was killed in the late 70s /early 80s but she was infected in a lab accident.

The only known surviving smallpox viruses are held by The US and the ex USSR

Agree becky, what does he postulate causes TB if not a bacteria? What explaines the patterns of spread seen in cholera? What explains Snow's observations of cholera and the water supply in London in the 19th centuary?

Hilarious Skribble. Exactly which part of his leaflet, on the OP, do you feel displays a taunting attitude?

Yes how dare he keep the MD. Also what hipocrisy to use a computer when he's obviously a just a witch doctor from days of yore. He should be conveying his information on a slate. He should have been squashed with the other pagans eh?

Why wouldn't he keep the MD FGS? It's relevant that he has studied in a certain direction and decided to move away from that. If he had no MD you would complain he has no right shunning medical views about which he knows nothing.

Oh hang on! That's what you ARE saying.

it is a bit like a defrocked priest still using "father"

Perhaps just a few words there I didn't actualy use .

Just wondered why if he describes wetern medicine as a sect he would want to still show his qualification in it?

Becky it's all to do with a more holistic approach to healing and a respect for the immune system.

IME doctors almost exclusively try to conceal symtoms rather than attempting to see the symptoms for what they are (signals of something wrong) and treat the root causes.

We have pain concealers for headaches and all sorts of aches so we don't have to address the cause of them. Steroids to stop allergic reactions from the immune system instead of trying to discover what's causing the allergic overload in the first place. etc etc.

In the end we use our own experiences PLUS some faith in people who have studied health more than we have. Over many years my faith has been steadily eroded in orthodox medical practise in this country and I have been finding other methods make far more sense.

(Spidermama - serious apology this time - you're right; I was sneering. Sorry.
)

ime doctors do try to see what is wrong and address it eg giving antibiotics when a child has potentially life-threatening meningitis

He probably uses words like 'sect' because he's had years of people like you slagging off his ear candles and auras without bothering to experience them out for yourself. Personally I think he ought to rise above it but he's not claiming to be perfect.

Ah. Thanks Kathy.

Bundle what about the doctor who gave me ABs for thrush last week which had been caused by .... ABs. .... Since we're bandying around one off cases and producing them as indicting evidence.

I didn't actually slag of ear candles but ok then.

Note to self, next time DS in hospital with life threatening virus refuse antibiotics and stick a candle in his ear.

I actually have a lot of respect for the holistic approach to health and alternatives to drugs but I am not going to refuse vaccinations for my children, and I am afraid there isn't much in Patrick Quantens writings that would change that. Some full and proper medical research might change my opinions over simplification of statistics and glossing over facts.

sorry missed a bit...

Not over simplification of statistics and glossing over facts

Well, thrush is caused by a fungal infection, and cannot be treated by antiobiotics, which only work agaist bacteria (and one virus carried by parrots).

What can happen is that you can disturb the flora and fauna of any given area, kill off the bacteria, and the fungi will grow more etc.

However this is light years away from backing up the supposition that bacteria etc do not cause ilnesses. Whilest there are other issue that do play a part, for example your general state of health (an I know of no reputable scientist who would argue wit this), the causal agent is tha pathogen.

He seems to be saying that all 20th C medicine is totaly wrong and microbes never cause disease, which is utter nonsense

Skribble no-one has ever suggested ear candles for meningitis. If you have been so dangerously misled into believing that by a mere MN threat then heaven help you. FGS read up woman. I urge you to inform yourself.