Some reasons why vaccination should be questioned.

[Spidermama]

This isn't meant to cause a flare up but rather to put wome points across which rarely get aired in the usual run of things....

1. Micro-organisms (bacteria, viruses, fungi, parasites) do NOT cause diseases. They aid the cleaning-up process of healing.

1. Most micro-organisms associated with seriuos illnesses live within healthy people without causing any symptoms at all.

1. All so-called infectious diseases are the result of a toxic condition within the organ of the whole body (i.e. dis-ease.) The symptoms relate to the elimination effort by the body to return back to health.

1. Susceptibility to disease depends solely on the state of health of the body, NOT on the exposure to micro-organisms.

1. Natural immunity is not disease-specific; one does not need to have come in touch with all diseases in order to gain immunity against them.

1. The presence of antibodies is NOT an indication of immunity. They are only a small part of the blood immune response.

1. No vaccine containing 'pure' micro-organisms elicits an immune response. Only when a toxin is added to the vaccine does the body respond to it.

1. An unvaccinated child is NOT an unprotected child; it still has its natural immunity. Besides, trying to protect from soemthing that is not the cause is inappropriate.

1. The Lancet (12 Jan 1980) reported that the BCG vaccine, against TB, showed no evidence of protection but rtahter an increase in cases of TB.

10. Government statistics shwo that death rates of ALL infectious diseases have drastically fallen BEFORE the introduction of specific vaccinations. (Smallpox deaths rose by approx 275% immediately after the smallpox vaccination was enforced.)

HOWEVER... if you believe that vaccination gives you protection against infectious diseases, then it should not matter to you whether somebody else has been vaccinated or not.

(Compiled by Patrick Quanten, MD. Independent Health Advisor.)

That's right MB. It's not the microbes, but the environment in which they find themselves which make the diseases dangrous or life threatening.

spider were you bored today?

i think the obscenity of western medicine is its emphasis on draconian 'cure' after the fact. there is no holisitic emphasis and worse there has until very recently been no attempt at prevention or most importantly finding ways to optimum health.

vax can be viewed as preventative medicine, but once again, instead of looking at it from the point of view of 'what makes some children able to sail through these diseases, why is the polio virus symptomatic of nothing more than a slight cold most of the time, how can we keep our children as healthy as we possibly can so that they are best able to cope with these diseases'

instead we inject them with the virus in order to prevent it. it is insane in terms of emphasis imo.

imo vaccines damage. they damage many many children that are immunised in low level ways. vaccinated children ime are more not less susceptible to eczema, asthma, colds, coughs etc. strange viral infections that lead to hospitalisation etc etc etc imo.

Never said meningitis did I?

Anyway off to complete my Samhain paganist rituals. Glad I made you laugh, his website certainly di, they must have spent ages translatingit from the slates he wrote it on.

Anyway I was thinking more quack than witch doctor.

i can tell i'm going to be really really popular for that post....

No, that isn't fully true either.

If you have rabies, with one woman exempted, you die. If you in the congo, you die, upstate NY, you die, supponded by shamans, or surrounded by the best Intensive care in the world, you die, fit or ill, you die. Full stop, end of story.

It has 100% death rate....with one exemption in the history of the world.

Death rates can be ameliorated with good care, but it is because treatment cures the disease, not because it makes the pathogen less dangerous per se

people now live for decades with HIV in the West because they take anti retrovirals. You can be the fittest person in the world, and live in pristine wonderfullness, and if you don't have the drugs are are essentialy dead.

Inspired post sophable.

Polio is a communicable disease which is categorized as a disease of civilization. Polio spreads through human-to-human contact, usually entering the body through the mouth due to fecally contaminated water or food. The poliovirus is a small RNA (ribonucleic acid) virus that has three different strains and is extremely infectious. The virus invades the nervous system, and the onset of paralysis can occur in a matter of hours. While polio can strike a person at any age, over fifty percent of the cases occur in children between the ages of three and five.

The incubation period of polio, from the time of first exposure to first symptoms, ranges from three to thirty five days, thus Polio can spread widely before a polio outbreak is apparent. Most people infected with the poliovirus have no symptoms or outward signs of the illness and are thus never aware they have been infected. After initial infection with poliovirus, virus particles are excreted in the feces for several weeks and are highly transmissible to others in a community. In all forms of polio, the early symptoms of infection are fatigue, fever, vomiting, headache and pain in the neck and extremities. Around 1% of unimmunized people develop paralytic complications, in some cases bulbar paralysis.

The pathogen causes the disease, Your condition, physical and also to a degree mental, determines if you will fight it off.

But the pathogen causes the disease.

Otherwise you would find run down people suffereing from , say chicken pox, who have a zero viral load for the virus, or antibody response to the virus.

"how can we keep our children as healthy as we possibly can so that they are best able to cope with these diseases"

That may work for us, in Britain, but in the four countries with endemic polio (Nigeria, India, Pakistan and Afghanistan), there are so many other factors affecting children's overall wellbeing. There IS evidence that vaccination can cut the transmission of polio. Unless there is strong evidence to counter this, and I'm not aware of any, then waiting for an holistic healthcare approach in Afghanistan would seem to me to be pie in the sky.

spidermama, speedy ab's to prevent meningitis and septicaemia is evidence-based. ab's for thrush is ummmm well, bonkers.

I am still trying to even understand what number one could possibly mean...
viruses/bacteria do cause diseases.
is he saying that our understanding of, say, HIV/polio/rabies/malaria/measles is wrong and that something else (what, though?) is causing diseases like HIV/polio/rabies/malaria/measles #(what?? what?? I just don't get it) or that the micro-organisms are only partly contributing BUT THAT ISN'T WHAT HE IS SAYING
argh
if one of the points is - hildren / people who are already weak and vulnerable are more likely to suffer more serious and long lasting effects from diseases, then I have to say no shit sherlock.
Oh dear I think my brain may explode.

point 3......All so-called infectious diseases are the result of a toxic condition within the organ of the whole body (i.e. dis-ease.) The symptoms relate to the elimination effort by the body to return back to health.

how does a new born succumb to an infectious disease if they have not had time to become 'toxic' ?

Harpsi take HIV for example. There's something which is obviously compromising the immune system, yes. But the 'v' part, which stands for virus, is unproved as they've never found or identified any virus. Rather they make diagnoses from antibodies or T cells or something. (Help me here MB).

People don't die of HIV or AIDS. They die of, for example, pneumonia or even candida albicans or other conditions which would normally be coped with quite well by a healthy immune system.

harpsi, I think you're approaching it from the wrong angle, if you're looking for a meaning

lulu, unfortunately newborns are not blank canvasses. They are born with many of our unsorted afflictions.

Oh bundle grow up. We're trying to have an intelligent debate here. It's not a plyaground slagging off session. It's actually quite important.

the catalogue of diseases which HIV+ die from aren't seen in people who don't have HIV. ffs even the South African govt have done a u-turn on that one....

Also why would the WHO recommend mass vaccination programmes if it wasn't to save lives?

And what about prions?

Those cause disease, too, IIRC.

And as to no. 1, how does that explain malaria then? That's a parasite that's DEFFO not there to clean up or heal.

And no.2, what abuot the micro-organism that causes influenza, which can be a serious illness? I don't think most people who get flu have it in their bodies all the time.

so the mother is essentially to blame for her new born becoming ill as she is toxic? what sort of afflictions do you mean?

how does one become non-toxic? so much around us is beyond out control...pollution , fumes, etc...and while i agree that we need to change these things... will take years...... so how do we live in such a way that our immune systems do not become compromised & toxic?

Sorry spidermama but I think the doctor who have quoted from has a juvenile and non-scientific approach.
Certainly the world's leading drs are not paying attention. I wonder why

spidermama, imo, there's nothing intelligent about the claims made in your OP.

Bundle: we are singing from the same song sheet

and if you want to quote the practise of an ill-informed gp (ab's for thrush) as an indication of the whole medical profession, then go ahead. but it is simply not representative, nor is it based on the evidence which medicine is normally judged.

hang on, have they really never found or identified the HIV virus?

[thinks] so what are those people in the lab upstairs culturing then?