Declining 8 week vaccinations for my baby - experiences?

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I don't want this to be about whether you should or shouldn't vaccinate your baby. I have chosen not to and I'm looking for experiences from others who have done the same. What did you say? What did the doctor say? Did you discuss vaccination once the child was older or flat out decline all vaccines?

"Yokohama would be explained by children getting single vaccines very close to each other"

Ah yes. The "Wakefield Gambit"

.....accounted for the cause of this dreadful regressive pattern: “ever since he fell off the pier and nearly drowned;” “the time he got trapped in the silo;” or “ever since he went into the hospital to have his tonsils removed.”

And do you not think that those events could have caused oxygen starvation and thus cause brain damage, which in some cases severe autism resembles?

That was not the researcher's point, LaVolcan, and you know it.

The question was - was regression observed and studied prior to the introduction of MMR, or even the measles vaccine. The answer is, yes it was.

Human beings search for patterns. That's what we do. There isn't a parent of a child with a disability who doesn't hunt for explanations, for reasons. Hence the "never been the same since..[some significant event]" It's in fairy stories, mythology......In my family, a child was born in the 1890s with some unspecified disability "because his mother was frightened by a black cat when she was carrying him" (bizarre but true). MMR is a significant event-and the timing matches.

The Elephant Man - some thought his condition was due to his mother being scared by a rampaging elephant at a circus when pregnant.

Oh, back to the timing matching again, eh, Hakluyt?

I seem to recall disabusing ,you of that notion on another thread a while back.

Correlation does not imply cause.

"Oh, back to the timing matching again, eh, Hakluyt?

I seem to recall disabusing ,you of that notion on another thread a while back."

Really? How?

People do fall into silos and die when overcome by fumes, do drown, do go for an op and have cardiac arrests on the table, so it is possible that in the second category the researcher happened to see the ones who had been rescued, but not sufficiently quickly. Autism can resemble brain damage.

She said 'all' parents in the second category, not 'some'. I think it would be a different matter if she had said that there was a third category where it came completely out of the blue.

by the simple means of getting you to name the timeframe you meant when you claimed the 'timings matched' and then showing you how the age the MMR is given has changed over time, and yet you still claim 'the timings match'.

There are, of course, cases of regression in 3,4,5 year olds, and older. Do the 'timings match' there too?

Your ignorance on this is astounding, as always. Yet you try so hard to appear knowledgeable.

"Your ignorance on this is astounding, as always. Yet you try so hard to appear knowledgeable."

Now, what was that Mumsnet phrase? Ah yes, "Did you mean to be so rude?"

Umm, yes, I believe I did.

Did you mean to be so breathtakingly cruel when you dismissed parents knowledge of what happened to their children?

The doctor was making the point that, prior to mmr, there was always something a toddler had experienced that could be attributed to the regression. And now, that something is mmr. Ot thimerasol. Or whatever the latest objection is. The point was that the parent always tries to find an explanation - that is human nature.

I'm glad all the anti vaxxers have their cutsie little narratives going ... I just couldn't bear the thought of an injection of dead germs into little Tarquin, and now look, he's an astronaut. Oh no wait, he isn't, he's in hospital fighting for his life in the measles outbreak. Yes, he's blind and deaf now, and his sister is dead from polio, but at least he hasn't got nasty vaccines running through his veins.

I can't believe you want to return to the dark ages and play with your kids' lives like that. The links between autism and vaccines has been proven to be false- the doctor who falsified the information has been charged and sentenced.

Anti vaxxers are truly winners of the Darwin awards. Just a pity they involve their kids in the mess.

I bet they won't object to injections for ikkle poorly Tarquin in hospital later.... In fact I think anti vaxxers should have to pay for emergency and ongoing treatment and care of their sick kids privately as they declined public health programmes. That might make someone wake up and smell the coffee, eh?

'Cutsie little narrative'? When hearing about people's children who have lifelong severe disabilities as a result of vaccination?

Well, what a charmer you are.

Which people on this thread have said that they are wholly against vaccinations, so could legitimately be called 'anti-vaxers'?

And don't make me laugh re: healthcare costs. I have paid thousands to get help for my sick child - the one damaged by vaccination, because her pain and suffering was ignored or accepted as 'normal for autism' by that same public healthcare system.

I don't deny that vaccine damage happens, nor do health professionals. But it is rare. People die from general anaesthetics and antibiotics too. This is also rare.

Vaccines do not cause autism. No link has been found. Andrew Wakefield has been struck off. He was in the pay of lawyers wanting to sue for vaccine damage, his results were found to be falsified/unreliable/unrepeatable. In fact, rates of autism have been found to be slightly higher in unvaccinated children.

No pandas, spectacularly, you've got the wrong end of the stick. The cutsie little narrative is for those who don't vaccinate. They're the ones with sad face in the daily fail, photographed by their deaf and blind kid during the epidemic, or at the funeral, you know, when their child dies from an utterly preventable disease, and they blame it on something else, like fluoride, or aliens.

There is no evidence that vaccination causes autism. I'm sorry if your kid is autistic, but you can't blame a vaccine for that. If normal for autism is what you were told by the medical professionals, that's what it is. Sometimes things happen at the same time, but have no relation to each other.

Wakefield was struck off as he was lying and other studies show no causality, rather the opposite.

I'm dealing with my DS who is currently regressing. He just turned 2 and his speech delay is awful. No diagnosis of autism and I don't think he has it. Time will tell if he does.

One thing I know for sure is that his issues have not been caused by his vaccination schedule. Most vaccines are given at milestone development points and I think that's why so many equate vaccines and developmental issues.

The mind boggles at the stupidity of some people. It should be a requirement for all children to be vaccinated with medical exemptions only.

Enough correlation warrants investigation, not of populations, but of the children affected, for sure. You wouldn't keep giving marmite if there were hundreds or thousands of people suddenly regressing into autism after they ate it, especially if there was a suitable substitute. You would look at the actual children to see if there was a problem. Psychiatrists, by the way, have a vested interest in autism not being triggered by vaccination. Some people (like Rutter for example who worked with Honda) have based their lives and careers on it, and it would destroy everything they've worked for to acknowledge vaccination could be a trigger.

If the person would not have regressed into autism without the trigger, I would definitely call that a cause, by the way.

By the way I don't think it's possible to say, vaccines (as opposed to MMR) don't cause autism, because there have been court cases.

Apart from that there are just too many parents who say it happened, whose children weren't looked at, whose reports were not recorded, whose concerns were not investigated, and where the regression was dismissed as coincidence out of hand. When you've got that many people saying it, the children themselves should be looked at, not populations, and not retrospective populations.

By just saying 'ah the Wakefield gambit' then I assume you haven't got an actual argument or any figures or anything. I did not hear him say it, by the way. It makes sense though, obviously. If you have a vaccination when you've still got a rash from the previous one, and you're just starting to get better, then you're set back, and set back a third time with another close vaccination, so it makes perfect sense.

Actually, I can blame a vaccine for my child's problems. And I have medical backing for that.

And no, her issues were not 'normal for autism' and therefore nothing could be done. She was in spectacular pain, and several easy-ish to carry out things (including the removal of marmite from her diet, for eg) have helped her enormously. The problem we had was finding a doctor with enough integrity to admit that she could be helped, rather than dismissing her with a wave and a 'oh yes, all as to be expected, nothing can be done'. Hypos and hypers are 'to be expected' with diabetes, but that doesn't mean they don't get treated. Why the difference for autism?

And I have non-vaccinated children. 2 of them. Because of my 'Cutsie narrative' about how ill my oldest child was.

And yes, Mags is right. You cannot categorically state that vaccines do not cause/trigger (take your pick, makes little difference imo) autism. Doing so just highlights how little you understand about the whole subject. Still, I suppose that marks out which posts can be easily ignored due to extreme and woeful ignorance.

VenusRising I find your blinkered view of 'if a doctor said it, it must be right' astonishing and quite frightening, tbh.

If that were the case then neither I nor dh would still be alive (I had an ectopic misdiagnosed, he had DVT overlooked and dismissed)and I would also have walked away when told (repeatedly, due to budget constraints and waiting list management) that dd: wasn't autistic, didn't need speech therapy, didn't need OT, and perhaps most shockingly (although the list is pretty bad so far, wouldn't you say?) I would have sought to reverse her dx when our GP queried her autism on the grounds she is a girl.

I don't know why people keep saying 'with medical exemptions' when it's already admitted that you wouldn't know who to exempt and you've got no way of finding out. I was surprised to see enthusiastic pro-ers saying that family history of allergies or should exempt you, although I myself think it should .