Declining 8 week vaccinations for my baby - experiences?

[Plasticpineapple]

I don't want this to be about whether you should or shouldn't vaccinate your baby. I have chosen not to and I'm looking for experiences from others who have done the same. What did you say? What did the doctor say? Did you discuss vaccination once the child was older or flat out decline all vaccines?

Please read my post. The information you seek is there.

Don't try to put words into my mouth. It's not clever or funny.

X-post. But my second post is relevant to both of you.

I asked a question, I fail to see how that counts as "putting words in your mouth".

MMR is the least likely cause, given the research and attention it has received.

You asked a nonsensical question, given what I had written.

You were either Trying to twist what I had put to,fit your own agenda, for whatever reason, or you cannot understand the plain simple sentences I wrote.

Aly- Where have the experts said that the population studies are 'enough' wrt susceptible individuals?

There you go back to using causes autism.

Will be back later to reply to the rest.

What do you mean by "exacerbated"?

Marmite exacerbates autism. Well, fuck me. I've just entered into a parallel universe.

To summarise, I think what bumbley is saying is that parents are perfectly within their rights not to vaccinate their child/ren (because, of course, this decision has no impact on anybody but themselves ) just in case they have factors (as yet unidentifiable by modern science, but which the parent/s may have a mysterious sixth sense about) which may potentially mean they get autism from a vaccine.

No, bumbley. That is not reasonable, or even sane/logical, justification for an otherwise healthy child to remain unvaccinated and potentially put my children's health at risk. I would most definitely feel it right and proper to tear the parents and their pseudo-speculation-non-science a new one.

Some children with autism also have digestive issues which could well be agravated by specific foodstuffs. Is that what you're saying, Panda?

Bumbley, when will you tell me how you know these susceptible individuals to exist and how to identify them? Why don't you accept the medical consensus that population wide studies are sufficient detect statistically significant levels of autism in vaccinated children, should they exist?

What's your individual level of risk or walking outside the house today?

Panda - you were saying that Hakluyt was too dismissive of Marmite as a cause of autism. So it didn't seem too much of a leap to ask you if you thought it caused autism.

That's another thing Bumbley - you make a big thing about the difference between causing and triggering...what exactly is that difference?

"That's another thing Bumbley - you make a big thing about the difference between causing and triggering...what exactly is that difference?"

I get that. "Causing" means causing autism in anyone regardless. "Triggering" means that the individual has a predisposition to autism which is activated by the vaccine.

What I still don't know - and bumbleymummy refuses to explain- is why MMR is being suggested as a potential trigger at all, as opposed to anything else. Like marmite.

Thanks for the simple and clear explanation Hakluyt.

Hakluyt, would that not be because so many parents claim that their children regressed after the vaccine.

People claim many things. That does not make them true.

And before the usual tidal wave, that does not mean that I think such parents are lying. I think they are mistaken.

i can totally understand why hv/gp hardly bother debating the pros and cons of vaccinations. i already can hardly be arsed against the tsunami of 'i feel' 'i believe'

But if the same number claimed their children regressed from normal development into autism after eating marmite, there would be no problem researching what happened to them and how to prevent it.

I'm not sure how you know they are wrong. It seems a very odd assumption.

Because this happens if there is suspected adverse reaction to a vaccine

Regression is observed in autistic children regardless of vaccination status, and has been observed many years before the development of the MMR.

No but if the same number of children regressed after eating marmite, and there was a rapid growth in the number of children with autism after marmite started being imported, it would not be dismissed as a coincidence.

I meant to add, what is your evidence for this

'Regression is observed in autistic children regardless of vaccination status'

do you mean any vaccination or the MMR vaccination, is there a study

Autistic regression did not start when vaccination did. Autistic regression happens in non vaccinated children. There was no change in the number of diagnoses of autism in the Yokohama study when MMR was stopped.

Yokohama would be explained by children getting single vaccines very close to each other, perhaps even during the reaction period to the previous one. But do you see my analogy with marmite, you wouldn't expect people to say: look at these other children who ate marmite and don't have autism. You would expect people to look at the children who ate marmite and did regress into autism. Do you have the study about the regression into autism without vaccination, also I'm not clear if you mean any vaccination or MMR vaccination. I don't think the Yokohama study shows that. Well actually it doesn't show that.

It's been observed as early as the 50's/60's. Lorna Wing, of the National Autistic Society, was a psychiatrist in the 40's whose own child developed autism. She observed normally developing toddlers regressing many times, long before the MMR.

It's been observed here in 1962:

On the Children’s Unit at WMHI, we had both forms of Autistic Disorder. In some children, the clinical signs and symptoms of autism had been present from birth. In others, the child was quite normal (neurotypical) at birth and reached developmental milestones, including language acquisition at the usual times and in the usual manner. But then, at age 2, 3 or 4, a conspicuous regressive process began robbing the child of all of that natural progress. Interestingly, in these late onset cases the parents all had some sentinel event that, in their mind, accounted for the cause of this dreadful regressive pattern: “ever since he fell off the pier and nearly drowned;” “the time he got trapped in the silo;” or “ever since he went into the hospital to have his tonsils removed.”