Declining 8 week vaccinations for my baby - experiences?

[Plasticpineapple]

I don't want this to be about whether you should or shouldn't vaccinate your baby. I have chosen not to and I'm looking for experiences from others who have done the same. What did you say? What did the doctor say? Did you discuss vaccination once the child was older or flat out decline all vaccines?

OP, not vaccinating your child used to be a no risk proposition because practically everyone else was vaccinated. So, why expose your precious child to an infinitesimal risk unnecessarily?

With Britain at the cross roads of the modern world, and so many parents choosing not to vaccinate, I believe the risk ratio has inverted.

Right, we're back in weasel words and obfuscations and hints and scaremongering.

Not playing any more. Bumbleymummy- what you are doing is utterly despicable. I donmt know what your motivation is, but at least the open anti vaccination brigade are open and up front with their beliefs. You are just scaremongering. I'm wondering if you are a shill for one of the many people cashing in on people artificially created fears by offering single vaccines at huge expense, or selling "alternatives" to vaccination. In any case, I'm outta here.

Where exactly Hak?

I'm not the one telling people not to let their kids play in the garden because they might get tetanus. Do you know that the tetanus vaccine wasn't routinely introduced in the UK until 1961. That means that most of our parents and grandparents should have been kept locked up in the house.

They know the general risk - which is the best we can do.

No. It is hardly a gamble in the real meaning of the word - 1 in a million chance of a severe reaction vs. being protected from nasty childhood illnesses. I'd say if you decided those were bad odds you would be wrong, and I'd tell you so.

Just as if you decided your "individual" risk of lung cancer meant you could smoke to your heart's content.

How do you cross the road/go swimming/do anything if you think 1 in a million is such a huge risk for you?

Yes, suspected severe vaccine reactions should be investigated.

No Bumbley, you're the person telling us all you think vaccines trigger autism, despite this being possibly the most investigated potential cause of autism, and there being no link found.

Again, how can you go swimming? Would you support OP if she decided to never leave the house with her DC?

Aly, you may be happy not knowing the individual risk. That's fine. Your child your choice. Other people aren't happy not knowing it so they make a different decision - their child their choice.

Aly, either you can't read or you're deliberately misrepresenting me. I've said several times that I think it may be a possibility in certain susceptible individuals. You also don't seem to want to acknowledge what we were discussing earlier which was that studies involving susceptible individuals haven't been done yet. So it isn't the 'most investigated'.

Do you think telling people not to play in the garden is scaremongering or not?

Do you think telling people vaccines can trigger autism is scaremongering or not?

You have failed to answer what changes you would make to those studies so that these "susceptible" individuals can be studied. Do tell.

I, and the entire medical community, think the population studies of hundreds of thousands of children are enough. What is your basis for thinking these studies are missing something?

Also, Bumbley : "How do you cross the road/go swimming/do anything if you think 1 in a million is such a huge risk for you?"

You seem to be very risk averse.

Would you advise the OP never to go swimming?

I'm not telling people that. (As I'm sure you know)

Why would I change the existing studies? Are you suggesting that there's a way to extract information from the study to identify the susceptible individuals?

The studies aren't 'missing something' if you're looking at vaccination at a population level. If you're trying to look at a small subset of the population then it doesn't have what you're looking for. It's kind of like looking for a needle in a hay stack.

Imagine that you want to find out something about peanut allergy sufferers. Do you look at the population as a whole or do you try to find he peanut allergy sufferers first?

Why are you assuming that I'm risk averse?

"Why would I change the existing studies? Are you suggesting that there's a way to extract information from the study to identify the susceptible individuals?"

Because you think there's a way to find these susceptible people. Please tell us how you would do that.

Because you think 1 in a million is a good enough reason to avoid vaccination.

Would you post articles on how many children die a year in car accidents if OP had asked if she was right in never leaving the house with her child?

I'm sure autistic people are fine to have vaccines, now you've brought that up.

If it's going to take another 15 pages for you to eventually come out with the fact that you haven't thought of a way of identifying these susceptible people you keep talking about, please tell me now btw.

And anyway - we're getting away from the main issue. Everyone apart from you and some other anti-vaxxers thinks the population studies are large enough and sensitive enough to detect if vaccines trigger cancer. They don't. You think they're wrong. Why?

*autism! not cancer

Yes, I do think there's a way to identify them. There is currently research being done into that. (Although you seem to think it's pointless because it's impossible) However, me thinking that it is possible to identify them does not mean that I think it is possible to take an existing population study and somehow 'change' it so that information about susceptible individuals can be extracted from it.

Back to peanut allergy sufferers.

Let's use that study Hak linked to. What can it tell me about vac vs unvaccinated peanut allergy sufferers?

1 in a million at population level. Not one in a million at individual level. I thought you'd acknowledged that we don't know individual risk.

"I'm sure autistic people are fine to have vaccines, now you've brought that up."

? Don't even know where this cane from.

Oooohhhhh, I didn't realise you think it's me that has to do the research myself. No, I just think it's possible and I support the people doing it. (Apparently you don think it's possible so I guess you think they're wasting their time?)

Where were we talking about vaccines triggering cancer?

Sorry x-post re cancer.

I've already covered that. Difference between May trigger autism and may trigger autism in susceptible individuals.

"Imagine that you want to find out something about peanut allergy sufferers. Do you look at the population as a whole or do you try to find he peanut allergy sufferers first?"

The analogy for this is finding people with autism and giving them vaccines. You have still not outlined how you would find people who are susceptible to autism. Please tell me. Do you even know?

"No, I just think it's possible and I support the people doing it. (Apparently you don think it's possible so I guess you think they're wasting their time?)"

Who is doing this research? And what kind of output will they be getting - a blood test? What will it test for?

What would you say to OP if she said she would never leave the house for fear of her DC? Do you think that's rational?

Do you ever go swimming?

So are you admitting that you can't specifically say anything about peanut allergy sufferers when you look at the population as a whole?

How would I do it personally? Not my area of expertise. How is it being done? Various -omics approaches afaik.

Yes, I go swimming. :) Why are you assuming I'm risk averse?

Can't keep away.....

Bumbleymummy- why do you think that the MMR may trigger autism in succeptible individuals? Please can we have an answer that does not include any questions.

I think it's a possibility along with other potential environmental triggers. ( for the third or fourth time)

Why do you keep asking the same question?

Because you won't answer it. Why MMR and not bathroom cleaner, pesticides on fruit or chemtrails? I think marmite is a potential trigger for autism in succeptible individuals. Do you think that is an acceptable statement?

No. I'm not saying that. But even then you've made a false equivalency, as you don't say how you intend to find those susceptible to autism? Do you even know?

I personally think (and medical experts agree) that the population studies are enough. Why do you disagree?

How did you calculate your individual risk for swimming and decide it was OK for you Bumbley?

Just to remind of you a couple of questions I have for you :)

"No, I just think it's possible and I support the people doing it. (Apparently you don think it's possible so I guess you think they're wasting their time?)"

Who is doing this research? And what kind of output will they be getting - a blood test? What will it test for?

What would you say to OP if she said she would never leave the house for fear of her DC? Do you think that's rational?

Actually, Hakluyt, I know you think you're being really witty and clever, but you're closer to the mark (in some thought circles) than you think.

There is quite a following (and case) for environmental triggers for autism.

Marmite was one thing (amongst many food items) which exacerbated my dd's autism. Laugh away (as no doubt you will). Try reading up on some of these issues, rather than ridiculing and belittling. You never know, you may learn something.

Do you think Marmite caused her autism, PandasRock?

I don't think I am being witty and clever. I am perfectly prepared to accept that there might possibly be environmental triggers for autism- if sombody gives me some evidence. But there is no evidence for MMR being such a trigger. And I would be very surprised if marmite triggered your child's autism either.