Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

General health

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

Pt 8 (Oct13) Any old prolapse! Uterus/womb prolapse, rectocele, cystocele, enterocele, urethrocele, incontinence, pelvic floor, anterior and posterior repair, TVT etc

999 replies

Bladderama · 01/10/2013 18:12

Welcome to thread 8 (again - see below) of a long-running series of posts from ladies suffering from pelvic prolapses to support each other through the process of diagnosis, repair and recovery.

With apologies for confusion in thread numbers - an earlier thread was called part 7 but it was actually the 6th thread.

Here are the previous threads:

Thread 1
Thread 2
Thread 3
Thread 4
Thread 5
Thread 6
Thread 7

Info from BBC Health

What is a pelvic prolapse?

As the muscles, ligaments and supporting tissues in the pelvis become weaker, they are less able to hold in the organs of the pelvis such as the womb (uterus) or bladder.

Gravity pulls these organs down and, in the more severe cases, may appear through the entrance to the vagina.

A variety of problems can occur, depending on where the weakness lies and which organs are able to descend, but in every case there is some degree of prolapse of the vaginal wall, which begins to invert (rather like a sock turning inside out).
Prolapse of the womb or uterus is the most common prolapse, affecting as many as one in eight older women to some degree
Prolapse of the bladder, known as a cystocele, is less common.
Prolapse of the urethra (the tube that carries urine out of the bladder) is known as a urethrocele.
Prolapse of the intestines is quite rare, and known as an enterocele or rectocele.

Symptoms

Symptoms depend on which tissues descend, and how severe the prolapse is.

They may include:
A sense of heaviness or pressure in the pelvis.
The appearance of a bulge of tissue in the genital area, which can be quite alarming, and is often red and sore.
Urinary problems, such as having to urinate more frequently, feeling the need urgently, being incontinent (losing control of the bladder) or, conversely, being unable to pass urine when you need to.
Pain in the pelvis or lower back.
Sexual problems, including pain and decreased libido.
Constipation.
Vaginal discharge or bleeding.

Treatment and recovery

Once a prolapse has developed, surgery to fix the affected organs is usually the only way to cure it effectively.

However, another option is to use a device known as a vaginal ring pessary. This is rather like a contraceptive diaphragm or cervical cap. It's made of silicone or latex, and placed in the vagina to push back the prolapsed organs and hold them in place. Many women happily manage their prolapse this way.

OP posts:
BeyondPissedOffAtTheWorld · 27/10/2013 10:46

The fact that it is so usual is one of the things that bothers me about my gyn appt Daisy, I've read this week that half of women suffer prolapse-y issues after a VB, most just have no symptoms. Yet i have symptoms and she claims there is nothing there. I would have been much happier with her saying, "it is very minor, its not worth the fuss of operating" than "it is normal for muscles to be slack after VB, there is nothing wrong with you" Angry
As time is passing, anger is really taking over where i was upset before!!

BeyondPissedOffAtTheWorld · 27/10/2013 10:48

My pals complaint is definitely going to include my opinion that it is difficult to tell someone what the issue is when you have been waiting A YEAR for the appointment, as you get used to things and almost forget they arent normal Angry

BeyondPissedOffAtTheWorld · 27/10/2013 10:55

Gonna c&p my thread here, is prob easier than going over to it :)

Pt1
I had my gynaecologist appointment today for my (diagnosis by my GP) rectocele. It was diagnosed over two years ago, but have had a pregnancy since, then a lot of cancelled appointments. The problems that led to me going to the GP in the first place are no different.

I cried in her office, I felt like such a fucking hypochondriac and I am so sick of having problems with everything. I have my pip medical this afternoon though, so hopefully feeling extra shit will help with that at least...

I will speak to my gp, and depending on what she says I may go to pals too. She did not get me to push, nor examine me standing up, just inserted a speculum and got me to cough. I said if there is no problem, is there nothing i can do to help it (arthritis in my hands and wrists makes digital removal v painful). I know there are pessarries/rings etc that could help with this, or even physio, but she said the only thing that can help a rectocele ("which you dont have") is surgery. In getting all upset I lost my nerve re everything i know. She didnt even ask about my labours. Next time i know I need to make sure i write stuff down so i dont forget anything...

She told me over and over again that my GP was WRONG to diagnose it, that any problems were caused by the weight/effect on muscles of being pregnant and that it also shouldnt be diagnosed less than 3months pp. I pointed out that I was four weeks pregnant with DS2 at the time, he was hardly heavy, and i was 10m pp from DS1. I wrote it off for those 10m that it was normal, i was just recovering. She said it is normal for my vag/bowel to be "lax" to the point of tampons falling out, and that having to digitally assist is caused purely by constipation (i am not currently constipated btw) not a fault in the wall.
Rambling a bit, hope this makes sense!

I told her I am suspected hypermobile, I told her I had a inguinal hernia as a toddler, she did not comment on either.
I told her I had a rectocele and she told me off for telling her what it was, said describe your problems and I will tell you what it is. I wonder now if she was determined that she would find I was "wrong" after that.

Oh thats the other thing, I have pain during sex, she said this can never be caused by a prolapse. I am far from an expert, but dr google seems to disagree.

Pt2
Am quite annoyed at myself now for today. I missed out a load of stuff I should have told her. Feeling heavy, like my insides are falling out, my DH can feel it too when I'm stood up, there is 100% something there!
Was quite preoccupied with other health probs today though, struggling to move and in tonnes of pain, and just wasnt prepared for her to claim there is nothing wrong

It used to be worse after prolonged walking, but I havent walked far for ages so that just wasnt at the front of my mind.

Am especially annoyed at myself because I am usually That Mumsnetter who is a right pita to HCPs and a bit of a know-it-all about particular medical stuff

ElectricalBanana · 27/10/2013 21:25

Hello..my name is electrical banana and I keep tena lady in business.

I am 45 and I have had two children. Both VD, first a 4lb but with a full episiotomy , second was 6lb but I had a third degree tear. I also have spina bifida occulta and I had spinal ( neck - discectomy and fusion C5 C6) surgery 10 years ago.

I am booked in for urodynamics tomorrow morning.

And that is all .....................Sad

IDoAllMyOwnStunts · 27/10/2013 21:54

Hi electrical banana. Welcome to the thread. I have just had TVT surgery for stress incontinence and like you kept Tena going single handedly. I am 4 weeks post op and so far so good, seems like its worked amazingly well. For me it's life changing, cannot get used to sneezing and not weeing myself!
Good luck for the urodynamics, it's honestly not that bad and the nurses will make it all a good as an experience as it can be. Are u thinking of opting for surgery if they offer it? Feel free to ask me anything if u have questions. Smile

ElectricalBanana · 27/10/2013 22:07

Thank you for your welcome.

I will probably go for the surgery if offered but will have to wait until next summer hols...I am a childminder and I mostly work term time.

I know all about the surgical options....I was a gynae theatre sister in a previous life and was one of the first to assist in tvt. BUT... I don't know about how it feels after the op. My cousin's wife had it done a couple of years ago so I have spoken to her tonight at a family party. She says it took her a couple of months to get better. I can afford to take that amount of time off...my job is quite heavy - babies are chunky monkeys! I will have weigh up the pros and cons ...do I stay like I am and feel like a smelly old woman but not let down my little ones or do I go for it and become more confident but let them down. Bloody hell!!!!arrrrrggghhhhhh

IDoAllMyOwnStunts · 27/10/2013 22:22

Yes I know what you mean about timing it right but there again if you stop and think about the timing of it too hard you'd never have it done as there's never a convenient time to be out of action.
I would say I am fully fit now after 4 weeks. I am back at work tomorrow, i have an active job and feel totally fine to lift etc, but everyone's recovery is different. Not tried proper sport yet, my sons trampoline will be the real tester I suppose Shock
The week or two after I was bloody sore, could only shuffle about, but now I feel completely normal. So glad I had it done, I took 10 years to get to the doctors and sort it out, can't believe I didn't sort it sooner, as I say sounds dramatic but it really is life changing. Good luck.Smile

izzybizzybuzzybees · 27/10/2013 22:36

Hello. I posted on this thread a lot earlier in the year. I'm 29 and have quite a severe bladder prolapse although I feel that more is wrong that that. My bladder bulges outside my body and after an appt with consult an who ranted prior to examining me that I was way to young for surgery he took one look declared that it was very impressive for a woman my age and that I needed surgery and to ignore everything he'd just said. He even called the other person in the room over to see! declaring this woman is ONLY 29.

I was put on waiting list but delayed surgery due to my sons age. He is a few days away from 1 and I am booked in mid nov. I'm terrified and feel so scared of everything. My DH has booked 3 weeks unpaid leave for after surgery and my mum and MIL will help with my children. Surgeon said I cannot lift for 12 weeks and that I really shouldn't return to my jobs ever as it's so heavy which seems excessive. I don't have a choice.
I also have hypermobility which is probably party the problem.

Tr0ubled · 27/10/2013 23:30

BeyondPissedOff you should definitely write to PALS but more than that you must ask your GP for another referral. Is there more than one Primary Care Trust near you? I am in London and so had the choice of 3 major hospitals to be referred to. I am quite sure that another gynaecologist would deal with you far more professionally. A lot of ladies on this board have been fobbed off by their GPs but not many by a gynaecologist.
I am 7 months into my recovery from posterior and anterior repairs plus perineum rebuild and a hemorrhoidectomy and it has been (still is) a long journey that started with a referral to a colorectal surgeon over 3yrs ago. He found I had a large rectocele and entrocele but refused to operate as I was too young (36). He referred me to the pelvic pain clinic and I was fortunate that the nurse there referred me on to a Urogynacologist. She had a totally different attitude and believed that regardless of age we should not only have functional bodies but also sexual ones - mine was neither.
I eventually had my surgery privately, but that is an even longer story! However I can say after all the people that have poked about down below it was only ever my private consultant who examined me standing, he also examined me sitting on the edge of a chair mimicking going to the loo. The various NHS consultants only ever examined me lying down.
When you do get a new referral you should insist on a defecating proctogram. They are not fun, I've had 3, but they are conclusive. The fact that you have to splint to help you poo is not normal except for on this board and it's appalling that the gynaecologist you saw should be so dismissive.
Good luck

lotsofquestions000 · 28/10/2013 09:39

MrsClairet 've just been looking at your posts and noticed you have to have another op re scarring. Can you elaborate? (PM if you prefer). I am now 16days PO for post repair and hav dared to have a bit of a look! I am now really worried cos it looked like either side near the entrance (I didn't delve!!) has fused togetherBlush. It really does look like I'm a born again virgin, so I'm really scared that nothing will ever get up there again! Is it too early days to tell yet? It also stung a bit when I tried to see if it would separate - oh God - feel really down now, when I was feeling really positive about it all before as recovery has been going really well. Sad

ElectricalBanana · 28/10/2013 10:42

Well I am back from my urodynamics and my pelvic floor is shot!

It's an experience I don't want to repeat in a hurry. I stood up and peed myself before I was asked to cough and then I couldn't pee the fluid out...I just couldn't get into the zone. Room was biggish and it didn't feel like a toilet. So I sat with a sheet over my head- and that folks is an image you can savour for the rest of the day. Had to push like billy-o to get a trickle out.

Appt for consultant after Xmas then most probably tvt a couple of months later. I am living the dream!

BeyondPissedOffAtTheWorld · 28/10/2013 10:44

Thank you Tr0ubled :)

There is another trust nearby, in fact from where I live, the Cardiff teaching hospital is pretty much as close as "my" hospital. So assuming my GP agrees that there is still something there (which there is no reason she shouldnt, I feel no different to when she diagnosed it! Will point out here that my Gp does specialise in ob/gyn) I will ask for referral there. And failing that, beg borrow or steal to go private.

BeyondPissedOffAtTheWorld · 28/10/2013 10:46

Forgot to mention in my big post, I think my age def played a big part in the trouble with my consultant appt. I'm 27.

izzybizzybuzzybees · 28/10/2013 12:25

beyond I'm shocked at her manner with you. Definitely request a second opinion. I'm 29 and my surgeon has been lovely, he had a long rant about not operating as I was too young but examined me and decided otherwise. I don't think all consultants examine in standing though from what I've read, in fact mine didn't even internally examine me! However I think my prolapse is very severe so he could see the problem from the outside!

mrsclairet · 28/10/2013 13:36

Lotsofquestions I don't think I can help I'm afraid, I don't really know where the scar tissue is exactly but when the consultant examined me he said yes I can see that would make sex painful (I haven't attempted it yet!). I have been told there is a risk of making things too tight, that's why I need to have it done again as they didn't do it tight enough but I think back to when I was a 17 year old and things were pretty tight down there, I thought it was meant to stretch!! I think my gp said something about they cut tissue out and make it narrower but I dont really understand the biology of it. I am just putting my trust in the doctor to do a good job but it is really scary. What's your gp like? I have a male doctor who is lovely, I would personally go and see my gp but I don't know what kind of relationship you have with yours.

IDoAllMyOwnStunts · 28/10/2013 17:40

Heehee electricalbanana sorry had to chuckle at you trying to produce with a sheet over your head. You trump me though on peeing yourself before you were even asked to cough so fair play to you on that one Grin
Did you not see consultant today to talk through your urodynamics results? Or is that when you next go in?
I would say get it done soon as you can, life is so much better I can't tell you ( I know I sound like a reformed smoker who is being annoyingly evangelical about its merits but all I had found on tinternet were tales of woe about TVT and not success stories so I think I'm still so amazed that its actually worked!)
I opted for a spinal block for the surgery rather than a general, it went ok but found it a tad humiliating to see them all stood round my bits with my legs in the air. Intriguing to see what goes on in theatre though but I guess you know that anyway from your previous job, depends if you know anyone in there I suppose, ooh the shame!
Best of luck anyway, keep posting updates x

ElectricalBanana · 28/10/2013 18:02

IDoAll....

Well the crappy thing is... Yes I do know the staff. It's been a few years but the nurse who did the test was a student 1000000 yrs ago on a ward I was running!

The next app is to see the cons re the right surgery. But nurse said she was 99.99999% sure I will be listed.

When I last did a tvt the patient was asleep and we woke them up a bit to cough....but they do spinals now. The only problem is I have spina bifida so I think a spinal will be a no no... Well I wasn't allowed an epidural for my births.

I have shown my lady garden to many at the local hospital ( as a patient of courseBlush) and I have no shame...that left the building many years ago!

Will keep you up to date ( app is after Xmas) but until then I will keep on buying the tena lady!

Mrsbapandbabies · 28/10/2013 20:58

Hi all,

I'm so thankful for this thread! It's quite a comfort to read all your stories and know that I'm not alone in all this!

Saw my GP today and she has referred me to the gynecologist. She thinks I've definitely got a decent rectocele and a mild uterine prolapse. I was armed and ready to fight for a referral but she was most willing and I didn't complain about half the things I could have.

Very pleased but a bit sad that I've decided to not have any more babies. Would have really liked another one but I just can't live like this anymore Sad

abigboydidit · 28/10/2013 21:05

Hi everyone. Having a hard time at the moment with my mood so have started a new thread as feel a bit of a fraud posting here, given what many of you are having to deal with.

I suppose it is just starting to sink in that I will be living with this "mild" condition for the rest of my life. Physio say I will not be a candidate for surgery and I will just have to continue with lifestyle changes to maintain the "mildness". The thought of never being able to run around after my DCs is breaking my heart but the second I do anything like that the heavy, falling feeling comes back. At the last session she saw a slight improvement (getting a lift and squeeze, rather than just a squeeze) but then I had a really busy couple of days and suddenly felt a bladder bulge that I have never had before Sad. I don't know anyone else who has had this so I don't know if I'm kidding myself, trying to get to a level of normality and just wasting time. Every day I regret going for a VBAC and feel such terrible guilt.

LackaDAISYcal · 28/10/2013 22:11

hugs abigboy xx. I am with you on the VBAC. I insisted on a VBA2C. Worst decision of my life, in retrospect Sad.

abigboydidit · 28/10/2013 22:17

Thanks. Yes, I turned down a 12 week recovery for this?! Confused

Tr0ubled · 28/10/2013 23:37

lotsofquestions please don't worry yourself yet. I had exactly the same fear as you, and at 5 weeks post op my nerves and patience got the better of me and I tried to insert a finger - I could only just get my little one in and felt mortified.
However I needn't have worried as at 12 weeks I had virtually painless sex Wink so be patient, there is still masses of swelling this early in your recovery. I wouldn't worry about it again until at least 10 weeks down the line and hopefully by then it will have healed totally.

lotsofquestions000 · 29/10/2013 10:00

thanks troubled and Mrs I had another little look today and I think I was panicking over nothing! As you say everything is still swollen but I think there is still enough of a hole Blush.

If not I think I might suggest to DH that he has a shrinkage operation to get my own back I sure he would be up for that Grin. Anyway feeling more positive again now and starting to get frustrated at not being able to go back to my normal levels of activity. Thanks again to all and good luck to those still waiting.

I will keep posting with updates of my recovery as I have been studying so many of these threads and peoples experiences and found it all invaluable x

jcakec · 29/10/2013 12:34

Well done Lotsof for having a looksee - I really need to do the same but haven"t plucked up the nerve yet. You said on an earlier post about pains in the bum being hemorrhoids - I wonder if that is what I have - is it a pain quite deep inside? I have been feeling much better and I overdid things at the weekend and felt awful Sunday night with the old dragging pains, it seems to have settled down again but it showed just what a long recovery this can take - 7 weeks post rectocele repair for me now. For those seeking other solutions I do believe that the pessarys work really well for some women - not for me unfortunately, I tried two as the first was too big and very uncomfortable/painful the second kept moving and falling down which again was very uncomfortable.
My heart goes out to all of you struggling with post op complications and to those struggling with getting diagnoses.

lotsofquestions000 · 29/10/2013 14:04

Hi jcakec The pain I had that was deep inside was defo from the op/wind/general bowel discomfort then as I was going to the loo (sorry TMI) quite a lot I think it as all the laxitives I was taking, the dreaded piles got worse but the pain was more stinging but coupled with the other back pain.ache was hard to distinguish from. Wow 7 weeks on and still getting aches that seems a bit of a daunting prospect. I think you are right about the recovery in that you can think you are fine then relapse. I am really trying to follow drs orders and not do too much but its going to get harder and harder cos I do feel ok and not in pain at all. I have been trying to get out and have a 30min walk a day this week and all seems fine but Im worried about getting half way to somewhere and then feeling crap. I really do want this op to be the only one