This illustrates why your vaccine choice matters to the rest of us

[CatherinaJTV]

one family's vaccine refusal killed one, another child, infected by the same unvaccinated pre-teen is still dying (since 2005):

justthevax.blogspot.com/2011/10/so-predictable-so-sad-natalie-dies-of.html

Catherina Nothing convinces you, does it? Yet, you seem to love your epidemiological (I still cannot spell that word) studies that do not involve labs and test tubes.

Personally I would prefer you didn't chose a subject this upsetting to post 'provocatively'

It may while away the afternoon for you but this is the rest of my life.

And don't pretend it is about the children. You clearly give not a thought to my son or my dd.
When you propagate this emotive nonsense it is my dd who gets the raised eyebrows and the comments.

surely, as everyone will have noticed by now - anything that happens that could be linked to an unvaccinated child = irresponsible parents at best, and murdering bastards at worst. whilst anything that happens that coudl be linked to a 'vaccinated' child = Did Not Happen, or Coincidence

just like the 'coincidence' of vaccine damage, I suppose?

Er Catherina why was the vaccinated child diagnosed with rubella then? I don't mean the child passed on vaccine rubella virus (fgs) I mean the vaccine FAILED - and the mother - not realising that was even a possibility continued about her daily business and so spread it. Whereas I, realising it was rubella. Stayed in.

Catherina - how about campaigning for a voice for my son. 6 grand that's all, but the local authority will probably say no given the need to save money.

Kerry

Are you plugging that story again...

I will read it later when I am easily spooked. And less fucking irritated.

aha, so now vaccines are 100% effective are they? and it's totally unthinkable that a vaccinated child could get the disease and pass it on? i don't think even the NHS propaganda states that! bizarre.

Catherine: that German research is contradicted by others - eg that published in Viral infections of humans: epidemiology and control, Volume 813 by Alfred S. Evans, Richard A. Kaslow, which disputes the utility (on grounds of small number of cases) of age-related breakdown, and puts the incidence in the developed world at between 1:100,000 and 1:300,000.

I was vaccinated against measles and yet caught a bad strain of it mid-August on a fortnight camping trip, where the doctor informed my mum I had to be incubated and kept out of the sunlight completely in case the light made me blind.

That was not fun. My mum and dad were the two teachers on a camp for children with behavioural and emotional difficulties and could get no replacement, so there I was, confined to a hot tent for days on end with unbelivable itches and a bottle of calamine lotion to keep me company.

But I'll have a superior immune system as a result and my long-term breastfed children will have excellent immunity too.

epidemiology and control, Volume 813 by Alfred S. Evans, Richard A. Kaslow, which disputes the utility (on grounds of small number of cases) of age-related breakdown, and puts the incidence in the developed world at between 1:100,000 and 1:300,000.

they do that on the basis of a paper from 1981 - I would trust the subsequent papers that look at better defined and analysed cohort much more.

Look I wish these threads would just go away.

They help no-one, as there is no sensible debate. I have vaccinated DS but I respect those who don't as they don't do it likely. And I respect those who do.

And Catherina its all very well saying my children are vaccinated against flu, what about everything else, my son ended up seriously ill in hospital with the common cold. Seemingly harmless(ish) but it was only because I have a very good hospital that he avoided being intubated as in a non-teaching hospital they would not have tolerated the oxygen concentrations he needed. We cannot eliminate risk, all we can do is weigh up one risk against another and make the best decisions we know how. For most people that is to vaccinate, but there are very good reasons for some people not to. Please can we just try and respect that. otherwise next time i wills tart shouting about isolating a child with a cold.

Where is this 1 in 2000 figure coming from? Most of the sources I've read say 1 in 100,000 although the risk is greater in under 2s. Pretty sure it's still nowhere near 1 in 2000 though.

One would expect the incidence in 1981 to be significantly higher than at present owing to relative levels of vaccination in the population.

Date of information is not an indicator of inherent shoddiness - especially when counting numbers of cases.

this is moving fast - so no vaccines are not 100%, but they are a heck of a lot better than nothing.

Date of information is not an indicator of inherent shoddiness - especially when counting numbers of cases.

True, but diagnosis of SSPE is better and you can sequence the measles virus, so analyses of cases are much more thorough...

the 1 in 2000 figure comes from Germany - I posted the study, but I only have a paper copy and have not found the full text online.

We cannot eliminate risk, all we can do is weigh up one risk against another and make the best decisions we know how.

Hilda - agreed, that is the reason I posted about Natalie. That is one of the risks.

Blah blah blah

If more parents REFUSED to vaccinate their children on the basis that it was not proven as effective and/or safe, then the government/nhs would have to take a closer look and insist on higher levels of effectiveness and/or safety to cover a greater percentage of the population.

You could argue that those who vaccinate blindly are the ones putting those at risk of vaccine damage at greater risk both of vaccine damage AND of catching the virus.

'this is moving fast - so no vaccines are not 100%, but they are a heck of a lot better than nothing'

Not for those who WILL get vaccine damage!