Circumcision

[softmusk]

i am 37 weeks pg not sure if having boy or girl but if we have a boy dh wants him to have a circumcision i not sure. what age is best to be done and how do i go about having it done

Bauble - yes, loads seem to be done WITH an aneasthetic, so I can't for the life of me think why anyone would risk it causing distress, and manage without!

Sackache - it just isnt necessary. As I said, the men can remember it themselves, so they dont think its a big deal.

We thought about it a bit, dx made the final choice because he (obviously) has more personal experience than me. reasons were: cleaner, aesthetically better (for adult, obviously), also, although dx is not Muslim, he did not want our ds's to be unable to marry Muslim girls when they grow up. (that would effectively rule out most of the women from dx's country).

Sackache, I would also like to add another distinction to your definition of what you found unacceptable, and that is the age at which it is carried out. I must admit I would not have liked it to be done on a small baby who didnt know what was going on and would have no memory of it.

Nightynight - this is a serious q - do you think that there is a context of social occasion and mutual peer bravado or something that effects the boys having it done in your dh's country? that there is such a strong expectation that it is 'ok' - like girls agreeing to pierce each others ears with a needle and cork, even though it is probably painful?

Of course, there is no reason to doubt your dh's account - but my mw friend gives a different story from having witnessed many muslim circumcisions where the bbies gasped so much in shocj=k and pain that they went ridgid, stoped breathing and went a bit blue.

Also, with considerable personal research, the foreskin is a v sensitive bit of body, so you would expect it to be painful, wouldn't you?

Not being argumentative, at all, just wondering what creates that freedon from pain that your dh describes.

stopped breathing and went blue ?

Not sure that would statsitically hold out as the norm tbh.

From my (very limited) experience, the babies cry and go red, if anything, though they settle very soon after (like seconds / minutes). dd made more noise for her first jabs than any circ baby I've seen (but I've only seen a few).

Find it abhorrant when adults decide how much pain a baby feels whilst getting its forskin cut off. You don't know so stop trying to make it out to be less horrifying than it absolutely is! Convincing yourself that its not that painful.... doesn't make it so!

I have read about witness accounts of religious circumcisions and it makes me feel sick and also outraged that this is allowed to happen. Regardless of your childrens account Nightynight..... perhaps you should read some other accounts!

Dh was circumcised at 8 for cultural reasons. (In his country it is normal practice to circumcise older boys and have a big celebration.)He was not traumatised and can't say how much difference it made.

We chose not to circumcise our boys and decided they could get it done when older if they felt the need to join dh's cultural tradition.

Now ds (9) looks as if he may need one for medical reasons (repeated infections have scarred his foreskin). Dh's family are now all saying 'told you so'.

Please bear in mind that this is not a cut and dried (scuse the pun) good/bad debate. People's reasons -cultural, religious and medical are complex and deeply personal. Our UK PC middle-class culture tells us bodily mutilation is bad. Other cultures feel disgusted by that unclean extra pieces of skin. . it is not as simple as I'm right and you're wrong.

Shimmy21 - I don't care why someone decides to have it done.... whatever their reasons other than medical its still causing horrible unecessary pain cutting through skin without anaesthetic!
As I have said before.... its a deeply personal choice if you want to slap your child across the arse..... BUT the outrage on MN from some people was unbelievable!

Still don't see the relevance in whether its a deeply personal choice.... its not really a deeply personal choice to choose to have this performed on SOMEONE ELSE!
Its a deeply personal choice if you choose to have it done on yourself.

Is this a bad comparison? It's like having a large mole, it doesn't really serve a purpose and most people would prefer to get rid of it. Yet it is a part of your body. If your baby was born with a mole you wouldn't hesitate to get it snipped off. Yet this is as much body mutilation as getting them circumcised. Perhaps it is just because of where it is that the problems arise.

I would use anaesthetic though, I agree that just because your dh said it didn't hurt (well, they would say that wouldn't they?) I wouldn't take that as gospel. Even to get ears pierced they rub the area with a bit of local first.

If you wouldn't go to get a mole removed without anaesthetic, then you shouldn't really get any part of your baby chopped off without giving it anaesthetic either.

That's the only problem I have with it. Other than that I really do think it is the families business and not ours.

I think I should step away from the thread.

If I read ONE MORE TIME that its okay to do this coz its a religious belief then I'll scream.

I'm sure there are many religious beliefs that are considered totally unacceptable in our society..... Religious beliefs aren't always right.... or humane.

Its like we're supposed to all go "OH I SEEEEEEEE, its written in the bible.... oh well then its okay to do that without anaesthetic then, what was I thinking!"

Rhubarb - That about sums it up!

But what would a Doctor say if a Mum took her child to the hospital to have the mole removed and specified that no anaesthetic was to be used. He'd probably think she was mad and phone social services! OK, over-reaction perhaps, But he certainly wouldn't carry out the procedure without anaesthetic even if the Mum said it was her religious belief.

Dunno Sackache, I think they might you know.

hold on a minute tho it does serve a purpose doesn't it? I mean it protects a vert sensitive part of the body.
and I am sorry to be graphic but it does serve a purpose in sex too doesn't it [worried emoticon].
I was interested to read the link which said that "many women prefer a cicrumcised penis..." - I mean can this be true? Isn't it just about cultural norms and what you are used (ahem) to dealing with.
this may be tmi, but on the rare occasions (OK, two) when I have been confronted (!) with a circumcised penis I have been like a fumbling virgin...
yes that is def tmi.

oh and one more thing
IIRC the hood of the clitoris is functionally and anatomically equivalent to the foreskin, and develops in the same way inthe foetus.
frankly if someone had sliced mine off when I was a baby I would be pretty peeved about it, anaesthetic or no.

Whatever purpose it may serve, hhas, I can assure you that some women do prefer it, that some men with it are happy with their sex lives, and that with, ahem, 'practice' (LOL) you will find ways to work around whatever challenges you / him may face.

And it IS easier to clean. Not that I would know!

pass me the shower gel, Sir Cliff...

Ooops, dropped the soap!

anyone know of an older person who hadthis done? was it very painful?

Look further down the thread Misdee, you'll find a couple posts there about men having it done.

its so big tho (snigger)

i'll get my reading glasses on and pop the kettle o nwhilst i search.

Haven't the men had done under local anaesthetic though??

See... that's why I always use shower gel.

I told you yesterday I can only make an accurate comparison if we see it in member profiles darling
yes I did ahem manage with a little practice
but I wouldn't say I had a preference exactly
I mean it 's quite a lot more relevant what it is attached to, right?? rather than a bit of skin, or not
I would be appalled if someone compared my ladygarden with someone else's, and mentioned their's was a bit tidier

Actually deep down I agree with sackache. My gut feeling is that it's just not a good thing to do for none other than religious/ cultural reasons. Hence chosiung not to do it for our sons eeven though it's part of dh's culture. I just think we should all be a bit aware that we all (even Sackache ) come from our own cultural perspective here.

Most of us on MN have decided it's right to send our children to school in spite of the fact that some people believe that the education system as it stands is deeply damaging to children.
Most of us have chosen to have our children vaccinated in spite of the fact that some believe we are putting poison into their bodies and risking their health. Most of us chose to feed our children meat, let them walk on pavements, ride bikes, use toothpaste with flouride in it, breast feed/ not breatsfeed. In the end all these decisions we make because we believe we are doing the best we can for our children and someone somewhere else thinks we are harming them. Circumscision is another of those decisions. Everybody who has had it done to their children believes they are doing the best they can for their child. If somebody has genuinely looked at the implications and decides that this is the best for their son for whatever reason, it is a personal decision because only you can make it for your baby.