**the 7th Tamoxifen Thread **

[MaryAnnSingleton]

here we are...

Smee you've just reminded me, - one of my childhood treats was a white bread doorstop, toasted over the fire and spread with butter and golden syrup - FBS or what!!

Ooh, now you're talking. Making me all nostalgic this. We used to be sent to the bakers for a White Tin Loaf, then get huge slabs, piled with butter and strawberry jam.

You lot !!!!!! Leave you alone for five minutes and it's all FBS or curry cravings in the morning or Biscuit Top Trumps!!

Have a confession actually ... I like wholemeal pasta, but rest of the family not keen so hardly every get it.

I love a really strong Wholemeal bread too but just Wrong for some things - Nutella on wholemeal? NO! Plain tomato sandwiches? Has to be white, pref white sliced with plenty of salt too! (and then squashed a bit for full nostalgia appeal). And even ham tastes better in white I think.

And talking of eating .... as my CT scan was only arranged over the phone yesterday afternoon, no letter, and none of you lot warned me ...... found out when I got there I was not supposed to have eaten beforehand ! A friend had given me a lift so I took her for a coffee and had squirty cream in mine and a huge slab of coffee & walnut, like you do! Ah well, if they spot a huge 'mass' in my tummy I think I'll know what that is then..... Liquid was vile, tasted of aniseed.

Apart from that - all went well.

Surgeon's sec rang - lymph clear out op is next Thursday! Suspect some poor non-cancer patient may have had their op cancelled to make way for me . BCN said that is what they do, cancer patients get priority. Am delighted for peace of mind that it's so soon of course. Also DS1's birthday on 14th so won't miss that.

How long were you in hospital with lymph node clearout, those of you that had it separately? Surgeon said 1-2 nights, then home with drain (yuck), BCN said 3-4 nights, because of drain.

great that it's getting done soon limejelly - and that you won't miss ds1's birthday - I only had the sentinel node doings,but others will know.
My grandma used to cut off the two ridges of crust on the top of a new white loaf and give them to me- just eaten plain- total heaven- I could never give up carbs !

Oh and Happy Birthday Sparkle!! Hope you get lots of lovely treats. I shall raise a glass of wine to you (well, to my lips actually) when I have finished typing this!

Great that they're doing it quickly LJ (I had to wait 2 months from my original op. - not great! but your hospital sounds on the ball which is excellent)

I just stayed in overnight, and came home with the drain (which I think I had for about 5 days IIRC). Sorry about the food issue - I had completely forgotten that Coffee and walnut sounds good though

The drink is vile isn't it?, I had a nasty peachy tasting one - they obviously come in a selection of unpleasant flavours!

Yes isn't it great that KK has told us we Must Not give up carbs!!

Oh damn my slow posting!

Hi Limejelly. (Sorry I've been getting confused about who is having waht treatment as I have to catch up so fast after work )

Anyway, good that the node clearance is so fast. So your question about timing for me is overtaken, and I'm sure its better to get it done quickly. Yes it was the bloody infection that slowed everything up for me by 5 weeks. Complete plain it was.

Happy Birthday Sparkle - and sorry only just realised we have the same initials ie SR so I was confused when people kept wishing me luck for an op I wasn't having Dementia setting in? Well you lot are all so young compared to me but I am totally young at heart you know.

Right, report from Slimming World for those interested.

Went on my own on TUesday but found 2 good friends already enrolled and another aqaintance! So encouraging start.

Felt quite confusing as I'd been used to Weight-Watchers from about 4 yeasr ago and this system is different. However I think this will be easier as less counting involved! And a big focus on what you CAN eat, rather than on what you can't, which is helpful.

Have been strict for 3 days since, so a good start! But a long road to go I think, in my case as I want to lose 1.5 stones to get out of the obese category and really help my health.

I've been swimmming once and to the gym in the last week, and out for short walk at some lunch-times - so making the right effort I feel!

You'd think if I can get through 7 months of chemo I could stick to healthy eating for the same length of time wouldn't you?? This is after all to help avoid getting BC again. (And also becasue I've put on a ton since finishing treatment!)

Will report back on whether it works.
Love to all.

RWU _ haven't seen you for a while. Hope you're keeping well and keeping the horses in trim?

MAS - sorry about your friend - I recall you mentioning before, as well

Hmm, wholewheat pasta - well actually I threw mine away at lunch-time - just couldn't face chomping through so much cardboard! (Didn't have sauce on it!)

O yes I think my drink was aniseed as well. Couldn't really quite place it at the time.

I think I was 2-3 nights in hospital - my surgeon seems to believe in patients staying firmly put till drains are out.

AND ANDY'S IN THE FINAL - HOORAY!!

Two months is such a lot of worrying-time KK! Don't know if it has to do with where you live or not.

Coffee & walnut cake was extremely good as it happens, and glad I did not miss out on it!

Think I might have preferred peach - at least I like peaches, have never liked aniseed. People who had been better informed beforehand had brought cordial with them to make it taste better.

OMG have you seen Stephen Fry's shirt/tie combo on QI

Oh yuk - it looks like one of those tutti fruity chews you used to get. He's done well with losing weight though hasn't he - think he said he did loads of walking to get it off.

Yes it was a pretty grim time LJ - DH's mother sadly died while I was having all the tests, so very stressful all round I kept sane by going for long walks with the dog every day!

I don't think the wait makes much difference to the cancer but in emotional terms the sooner you can get it done the better - so good luck for next thursday

A big advantage of a quick follow up op. is that you won't have two long healing periods - both your ops will be healing at the same time if you see what I mean

Nice that you will be home for your DS's birthday

SR I was thinking about RWU earlier today too - anyone in touch with her on facebook? - hope she's keeping well and enjoying herself.

SR - well done you with your weight loss resolve and exercise!

Everyone - May I tactfully enquire whether cancer treatment actually causes you to put on weight, or is it the enforced inactivity, or the comfort eating, or what? Sorry, but have been trying and failing to work it out from what you have all been saying, and being about size 18 already, it's worrying me a bit!

Oh Kurri so sorry

Thank you LJ.

With regard to the weight, I found I lost a lot of weight on chemo, but the steroids you have when you have chemo, plus the tamoxifen afterwards (and in my case a thyroid problem too)can make you put on weight.
Also you can feel tired and lacking in energy for a good while afterwards.

I don't think it's inevitable, but I think if you have a tendency to put on weight you need to be aware that it may happen so you can be careful with your diet.

Easier said than done, because I think you tend to feel 'I've been through all this treatment, I'll eat what I bloody well like'

Meant to say SR - the slimming world meeting sounds interesting and an achievable way of eating. Might give it a go when cash flow is a little more healthy

Ah, had no idea about the steroids - they don't help.

Me having cream on my coffee and a big slice of cake (my thin friend shared a cookie with her daughter ) was totally about me 'treating' myself, so what you say makes complete sense!

tamox. doesn't necc. make you put on weight (this was something I was really fretting about - part of my OCD is the control thing and my body image and the thought of becoming larger genuinely really panicked me) but I know that some people do have weight increase-same with anti depressants (hence my huge anxiety about having those too !) Sounds pathetic thing to be feaqrful of,in the scheme of things,of course. I'm hoping my nerves will keep me thin ! (am not thin,just regular really)

MAS - just returning to the thread before I go to bed (with the better part of a bottle of wine inside me), to find you have posted basically the same as what I have just been thinking:

What the hell does it show that, here I am facing battle with a disease that may kill me, and I am posting worrying about how fat I may be in a few months' time ??!!

Does it show:
a) how shallow I am?
b) what optimism you lovely ladies have inspired me with, that of course I will be here, so 'business as usual', worrying about fat or thin?
c) the pressures that are on us in our society, that we place not getting fat(ter) as such a high priority and concern in even these circumstances?

I was very worried about putting on weight when I had to take Citalopram too, but I just had to, 24-hour anxiety/panic just too debilitating. It was fine.

Anything that may lead to weight gain is a worry, except eating

Night night all. Sweet dreams and lovely weekends x

bit of b I hope and very much a lot of c !

Hopefully some of b) LJ a bit of c), and maybe a little of the fact that your body is undergoing changes with surgery etc. and the feeling (for me anyway) 'isn't it enough I have cancer, do I have to get fat as well?'

I Forgot to say I'm on 20mg citalopram, - so don't know if that is affecting weight or not. Plus I've also had a hysterectomy about 12 years ago, and I think that and menopausal stuff makes me put on weight (tries to think of other excuses for myself, rather than 'I eat too much' )

What I would say is, don't worry about it at the moment - it might not happen - concentrate on getting well again, other things can go on the back burner for bit

have a good weekend everyone - meant to say I got some of the MN tickets to see 'Rabbithole' at the cinema tomorrow. I have to write a review in return for them. So I'll let you know if it's worth seeing.

Hi, My nurses advised clearly against dieting while on chemo. I found my weight fluctuauted wiuldly while on chemo, but I did walk as much as I could, when I could and I think that really helped me in many ways (morale, nausea, weight, fitness)

However afterwards I've celebrated quite a lot! And being at work means less walking. So I have simply eaten too much I think, but do worry a bit about my Armidex as it does make my joints stiff.

I gave myslef up to new Year not to worry about weight but do need a campaign now. Its for health reasons rathewr than looks so I don't think its superficial vanity!

And I hate the idea of Fat producing oestrogen!!

I'm size 18 too by the way.

Have just been outshopping for Slimming-World-advised itmes!

Hi Sands - I really like the sound of your anti-dieting nurses and your stay-put-with-the-drains surgeon! So, what's for dinner tonight?

KK - the rub is, I always thought cancer made you thin anyway. As you say, very unfair to have cancer and get fat. You sound like you have plenty of very good reasons for not being sylphlike! I have been toying with going back on the Citalopram under the circumstances, and the BCN has basically said it might be good idea, but your idea up-thread of asking for sleeping pills struck a chord with me. Being able to sleep does help keep the anxiety symptoms at bay, and taking sleeping tabs short term rather than ADs long term appeals. Personally, given the vast array of drugs/chemicals I am allowing into my body at the moment, I think worrying about a few sleeping pills would be a bit daft! Have had Zopiclone (?) in the past and found it very good, even just a half a dose (3.5mg) helps me stay asleep instead of jerking awake with thumping heart, clenched stomach, etc.

Hope you enjoy the film! Isn't it supposed to be awfully sad?

have just eaten two choc biscuits after lunch -but have told myself I';m doing my 45 mins of mindful yoga later !!
Ds making tomato soup for supper -yum.
Off to do some work now...

I had zopiclone too LJ, and found they just gave me that bit of help in getting off to sleep. And I didn't find it difficult to stop them when I was ready to.

Chemo will usually make you lose weight, - mainly because your appetite isn't up to much. But as you say I have got other things going on, so I don't think weight gain always happens.

I've heard the film is sad - in which case DH will probably cry (or fall asleep, which he usually does during films)

I have to say that as far as antidepressants go,am finding venlafaxine pretty good - no discernible SEs- am on x2 tablets a day