So much talk about Reform, are people panicking?

[equisetum]

All across the boards people appear to be scared of just how popular they are.
If it's not panic, then why the desperation to tell anyone voting for them, that they are all racists?
Reform voters BTW, just very interested that no other parry is having such animated discussions. If they weren't becoming so popular, nobody would be talking about it.

Michael Rosen, Sunday 18 May 2014
Fascism: I sometimes fear...

I sometimes fear that
people think that fascism arrives in fancy dress
worn by grotesques and monsters
as played out in endless re-runs of the Nazis.

Fascism arrives as your friend.
It will restore your honour,
make you feel proud,
protect your house,
give you a job,
clean up the neighbourhood,
remind you of how great you once were,
clear out the venal and the corrupt,
remove anything you feel is unlike you...

It doesn't walk in saying,
"Our programme means militias, mass imprisonments, transportations, war and persecution."

michaelrosenblog.blogspot.com/2014/05/fascism-i-sometimes-fear.html?m=1

I think you've missed the point.

It's not about the boats. It's because they have a completely unrealistic plan.

They might as well say they'll give everyone a million pounds and baby dragon.

Not really.

@CinnamonCuirass 16% minimum

Asylum seekers are not "illegal immigrants"

Control has been lost because for some stupid reason we 1) brexited, 2) went for the hardest brexit, 3) picked a fight with the French, 4) refused to pay anything to police our borders properly.

Shouting "stop the boats!" is about as effective as farting in a wind tunnel.

It needs investment in borders, closer working with the EU and more safe routes for asylum seekers. Not gimmicks and soundbites. Everyone knows that which is why the Tories are toast.

Reform are just giving the people who don't want to think too hard about it straws to clutch at. It's a new broom, but also a new broom without a plan (unless you think shooting migrants in boats is OK)

That’s won’t happen. If it did then Labour wouldn’t even win an outright majority.

Reform will poll somewhere between 15-20%. That will translate into a tiny number of seats but that isn’t really the point. The end game is 2029 with a consolidated right of centre party.

When you consider the negative view many have of the Conservatives it is remarkable to think that Labour are still only polling at barely 40%. They have gained almost no support. They will in effect win a large majority by default.

That does not bode well for them at the next GE when they will have been accountable for 5 years.

This GE is needed by the right to end the 2 party system. Its impossible to do that in one go but for Reform to get half as many votes as Labour will be remarkable and will show that Labour will have no chance in 2029 if the right of centre parties are united in some form.

We just have to hope that the catastrophic damage Labour are about to inflict on us isn’t unrecoverable.

Please do elaborate? How so? Do you know of Dulwich College, do you know where it is? You probably won’t though as you know I’m correct!

In Northern places like Rotherham and Barnsley which are hotbeds for working class bigots perhaps, but most of the country will do the right thing. 3%. No more.

I think it's easy to vote for something that is untested, reform haven't got a bad track record because there is no track record. Hard to be disappointed with the way they have dealt with dentist shortage or teacher strikes or planning legislation because
they have done nothing. You can project your dreams onto them.

Do you mean you think Reform will reunite with the Tories? If they get the amount of votes you're expecting, I'd think they'll be around for a while.

It is good for democracy to have the left and right votes split between more than one party.

I know some people voting Reform as a “protest” vote or so they openly profess. None of them are educated to university level. There are a fair few of them who are fed up with the “system” and think Labour/Tory are all the same. Mostly they also think that Brexit was just the start and we need a whole new system.

It will be better for democracy to ban Reform now and send a message to the electorate that politics is a serious business and far right parties cannot be allowed to participate.

Then labour can sail to victory, increase immigration dramatically, drop the voting age to 16 and hopefully by the time the next GE rolls round, the conservative party will be unelectable forever by order of demographics.

Yes, how exactly, with his Fascist friend across the channel, is Farage going to stop the boats? That’s the trouble with hateful politics is that nobody wants to cooperate, too busy stoking unrest and division!

I doubt trafficking issue will go away. It’s likely to increase, so we’ll see what happens then

Sadly I don’t agree with this prediction. I think if we were to individually ask every single person of voting age, support for Reform would only be about 3%. But I predict a low (ish) turnout. I think a lot of Labour voters won’t bother, thinking it’s sewn up so they don’t need to. And I think Reform supporters will turn out in droves. My prediction is about 15% of those who bother to vote, will vote Reform.

I do hope I’m wrong and you’re right!

You'll be hard pushed to find a single person who agrees with illegal immigration and I think you know that.
Boats are obviously not the correct wat to enter this country.

So what options would you give to people who wished to seek asylum here?

And how do you think Reform are actually going to stop the boats?

Yes your point about university education is the most salient one. There is clearly an educated difference between people who vote for parties like labour, the Greens and Lib Dem’s, and then people who vote for the likes of UKIP and Reform.

We need a serious conversation about who should be afforded the right to vote in national elections, because handing them out to everyone and anyone is why we are getting what we get in Europe right now. Does anybody want the same here in the next decade?

“It will be better for democracy to ban Reform now and send a message to the electorate that politics is a serious business and far right parties cannot be allowed to participate.

Then labour can sail to victory, increase immigration dramatically, drop the voting age to 16 and hopefully by the time the next GE rolls round, the conservative party will be unelectable forever by order of demographics.”

@CinnamonCuirass - banning a party makes you the extremist!

Personally, I am just as scared of the views you have just expressed as I am of Reform.

So are you saying that if you aren't educated to certain level you shouldn't be allowed to vote?!

@Araminta1003

"I know some people voting Reform as a “protest” vote or so they openly profess. None of them are educated to university level"

Implying that the average Reform voter is less uneducated than non Reform voters or closet racist or closet fascist etc etc is not an intelligent counter argument (regardless of your own education).

Generally I find that insulting people doesn't work well in bringing them round to your point of view- just look at what happened in Brexit.

Yes it was absolutely the biggest single act of economic self harm inflicted on itself in UK economic history but the arrogant actions of the Remain campaign of Leavers are uneducated, thick, racists and white did us all no favours.

“We need a serious conversation about who should be afforded the right to vote in national elections, because handing them out to everyone and anyone is why we are getting what we get in Europe right now. Does anybody want the same here in the next decade?“

This is incorrect thinking. What we need is proper Education across society.

It is not democracy per se to blame. More likely social media and lack of critical thinking and all the algorithms that is leading to the far right getting to where they are now.
The decline of living standards in Europe was entirely predictable for years now.

Since when was not being a racist; ‘woke’? I think your are chatting s**t tbh!

Really. He’s been a career politician for 30 years and made millions from commodities trading. He attended an exclusive private school. He’s got establishment printed through him like a stick of rock! He has nothing in common with us, despite what he tries to portray.

I don't get involved with the discussions about whether Reform are racists or not - that's for people's own consciences.

But their promises are nothing but a fairy tale based on the opinions of golf club bores and Daily Mail reading fantasists. Get rid of immigration and solve the housing crisis!.You can make massive savings in public spendings by using "common sense" and getting rid of diversity officers. Climate change doesn't exist. "Wokery" can be banned.

Their prospective MPs (those who aren't racists, lunatics or possibly both) were selected by filling in a form and paying a bit of money to Farage's non Coutts bank account.

I'm tired of the endless moaning about "lefties not understanding us". You got your Brexit which has cost the rest of us untold billions and you're still whining. I don't respect anyone voting for Reform any more than I respect an adult who still believes in Santa.

They are clearly on the non so subtle wind up as I suspect loads of these GE posts will be in the next 24hrs!