Labour Party and gender

[Mobley52]

I've seen quite a few threads where people have said they would not vote for Labour because of their stance on gender.

Would somebody be able to explain in simple terms why this is please

Many thanks

All the talk about how difficult it would be to "enforce" single sex spaces seems muddled to me anyway (possibly deliberately so).

My understanding was, if you change the equality act to ensure single sex spaces mean single sex, that law binds the service provider not the service user. So if a workplace knowingly lets males use the female toilets or able bodied people use the disabled toilets, police are not going to leap out and arrest anyone. But a female or disabled employee would have a case against the employer for discrimination for not being provided the service they needed. So it incentivises the employer to put policies in place that keep them on the right side of the law.
Basically the law would require people who run toilets or changing rooms etc, to do what was reasonable to keep them single sex, depending on the setting. Exactly as they do now, except that where some providers would currently class TW as women, they would be classed as men.

considering how little is done to actually investigate and prosecute rape its effectively already there.

As i've asked before, please explain an effective and practical way to enforce the public toilets issue, I'm happy to hear of one but haven't yet heard one!

Oh come on.
We appear to be talking about toilets. There is no comparison between rape (a horrendous crime) and someone using the toilets designated for the opposite sex
I actually find that minimising and quite offensive.

and yes for workplaces, i'm talking about public toilets which is where i can't see how we can effectively enforce it.

I can't remember what business it was but they offer male and female toilets for those sexes only and then had a seperate gender neutral toilet for those that were happy with that - i'll need to figure out who that was

Is that a yes to @Underthinker’s question?

You would make it legal?

We don’t need bouncers etc just legal underpinning for women to have single sex spaces

It gives clear direction to men and women what is expected in law. Majorly of people are law abiders

Those who are not there will be recourse for women

it's a strange one because remember a few years ago when we (rightly) complained how using rape in certain contexts minimized the trauma of the crime? "x raped my facebook blah blah blah" So is it not offensive to then act as if being raped and using 'shared' facilities is the same level of trauma?

I agree that there are many women who have trauma from rape but assuming all have the same feelings as me is invalidating their experiences and trauma. I'm a victim of rape and i feel one way. Others who have had that same experience may feel differently and some 100% do.

I don't claim to speak for all women or all victims of rape, but i sure as hell hate being told the horrendous assault i was subjected to is the same as someone going for a piss in the adjacent cubicle. it is NOT.

where is the recourse for women who have been raped? I'd agree with you if our society actively tackled the rampant rape culture we find ourselves in.

I didn't make the comparison originally, it was discussed multiple times yesterday, I haven't read the full thread but it looks like it was referenced mostly by you and alwaystired.

You have said that something should not be illegal if it is hard to enforce, and on the same page you have emphasised that rape is hard to enforce, I hardly think its a great leap to point out the alarming inconsistency there.

Oops
Misunderstood

Do you actively want the law changed?

That freakin emoji

But can you answer directly

Is it a yes?

We haven't said rape is HARD to enforce just that it's not been enforced due to lack of police forces being underfunded, under resourced and our justice system delaying cases to such a point that after years victims drop out.

a yes to what? what are you asking me if i want to be made legal?

Is your want to make it legal and to keep the status quo with men in some spaces?

This sounds far worse

Rape and toilets are in no way equivalent.

Rape is a serious crime that's not being investigated and dealt with properly, because its not being prioritised, not because its impossible.

Use of opposite sex toilets is a social issue where there isn't even agreement it should be a crime, and if it were a crime we would know it was going to be impossible to enforce (without putting CCTV and bouncers on toilets which is intrusive and ££)

It's a really strange argument to make and not at all convincing

Not regarding toilets, no. I think it would be a colossal waste of money and legislative time is limited, I'd rather see it being used for areas where it can make a change.

Have you read any of my posts in this thread where i explain my thoughts on single sex spaces and that i welcome them? Clearly not if this is your question. I mentioned that for certain parts toilets/changing rooms public it's not able to be enforced practically so we should focus our efforts on ensuring more prudent barriers to our safety are removed.

So enforce single sex hospital wards, refuge and rape crisis centres and access to single sex care if that is the preference.

My question to you @EasternStandard @Underthinker - say we do change the law in regards to toilets/changing rooms. Once that's done, what do you then focus on to vastly improve female safety?

Yes I said some spaces which reflects your position

The not worth the effort for all spaces seems a pity for women and girls

Considering not every woman/girl agrees that toilets/changing rooms should be as highly regulated as a hospital ward, it's not really that much of a pity.

I believe the actions you are talking about don't improve our safety in a society which has a huge rape culture. If we didn't have this culture, i would agree with you. And considering we are significantly more at risk by someone we know such as a partner, father, friend or other relative - strangers in the bathroom is not the big 'gotcha' moment some assume it is.

Lets fix the rape culture that is actively harming us first.

I'd like to know the answer to this too.

i've asked it on countless threads and never hear much back 😲

I'm 5'11" with size 8 feet. I've NEVER been wrongly identified as a man. Ever. Even when I also had a shaved head. I imagine it's vanishingly rare for such misidentification to take place.

Edit to say that none of my tall friends at school had it happen either.

It’s already been essentially decriminalised because rape cases aren’t getting to court for years. That’s why Starmer has pledged to repurpose the Rwanda courts to hear rape trials.