Labour Party and gender

[Mobley52]

I've seen quite a few threads where people have said they would not vote for Labour because of their stance on gender.

Would somebody be able to explain in simple terms why this is please

Many thanks

When? And someone claiming to use single sex spaces is not the same as demonstrating that they do.

When applying for a GRC.

No. They ask for a diagnosis from two approved doctors and id documents covering the past two years.

Not according to detransitioners who have been through the process. Or trans people who say they have to have already been using opposite sex spaces to prove that they have been living as their preferred gender.

I'm gender critical, but Labour's stance (confused as it seems to be) is not a concern for me. There are much bigger issues. Crucially, we need to start funding the public sector again.

To me, belief in a gender identity is a neo-religion that goes beyond political parties. The Tories were buying into it at one stage. It's also a fad which I think is fading. Kids are moving on, and so are the corporations that blindly supported it.

What you are saying simply isn't true and is a myth put about by TRAs who are desperate for any excuse to get into women's spaces.

All the evidence of "living in your gender" required is a name and title change which should be evidenced using one of the following types of ID:

Evidence of living in your gender for the last 2 years
You’ll need copies of evidence to show that you’ve been living in your affirmed gender for the last 2 years.
Each piece of evidence should contain at least one of the following that matches up with your affirmed gender:

1. a name
2. a title, like ‘Mr’ or ‘Miss’
3. a gender marker, like ‘male’ or ‘female’

There are no other specific requirements for this evidence, but try to find:

1. evidence from different points over the 2 years, with roughly 1 piece of evidence for every 3 months
2. at least one piece of evidence from the last 2 or 3 months
3. evidence from a variety of different sources

The evidence can come from before you were diagnosed with gender dysphoria. Examples of what you can send in include good quality photocopies or photographs of:

1. your driving licence
2. your passport
3. identity cards, like workplace IDs, student IDs, railcards, health insurance cards, library cards or supermarket loyalty cards
4. letters from solicitors, accountants, doctors, dentists or employers
5. bank statements
6. payslips, P60s and P45s
7. benefit letters
8. tax letters and documents, including council tax
9. credit reports
10. confirmation letters that you’re on the electoral register
11. student loan statements
12. utility bills, such as internet bills
13. rental agreements
14. academic certificates and documents

https://www.gov.uk/apply-gender-recognition-certificate/what-documents-you-need

I believe your final sentence is wrong, and refers to a KJK rally in New Zealand or Australia. No one can control who comes along to a rally.

Dropping shit like that in is a marker of the poster's credibility, IMO.

I'd say ignoring the very clear associations is a "marker of the posters credibility" tbh
People can google her and make up their own minds.

Yeah. Well, you do you. As ever.

No but you can not align with them at all, denounce them.
And no it wasn't about one specific time in mind. I had a lovely exchange on X this week where the GC replied to a thread about neo nazis turning up to rallies was good because "they were decent men"...

i agree that we can't control who turns up to our rallies. but we can control the narrative by denouncing them and not referring to them as decent men. I'm just hoping it was a bot account and not an actual woman who thinks neo nazi's are good because they agree on one point.

Is she the one who said people should be able to discriminate against TW at work or renting? Because it's a fetish apparently so.

So some random person on X then? Not a vocal minority on MN as you said before?

'The GC'?! What a ridiculous term to use. You've no idea who people on TwiX actually are, either. Much like on here.

Believing you can't change sex also doesn't mean you're necessarily gender critical either (which has a specific meaning). Biological realist is probably a better term for people who don't believe you can change sex but do subscribe to stereotypical gender roles.

I once had a feisty debate on the guardian comments with someone who claimed I have never known the sex of anyone I've ever met, but I have only guessed at their sex based on their gender presentation. This person was probably the densest person I've ever come across, but was getting more upvotes than me.

But do generalise and say that all TRAs or people who argue against GC ideas are complete gibbering morons??? Ok I do, but the point is I shouldn't.

I'd very much appreciate it if for once you could not snark at me. Just ignore my posts if you find them that outrageous. It's fine to agree to disagree, suggesting people Google and draw their own conclusions is hardly controversial

I strongly suspect we are about to see the "vocal minority" in action, as is what happens if you mention certain women in any context other than almost religious devotion

If you're talking about Kellie-Jay Keen, she has clearly stated that she does not align with Nazis.

Ultimately, if both Nazis and trans activists show up to a peaceful women's rights demonstration looking to cause trouble in one way or another, and the Nazis are not the worst behaved people there, the trans activists have absolutely no claim to the moral high ground. You can't go round shrieking "but Nazis!" when the people abusing and assaulting innocent women were actually your lot, not the Nazis.

If any of them say that neo nazis are decent men, I'll be the first to condemn them. But I've never seen anything like that here and I doubt you have either.

That's a slur, given the 'vocal minority' referred to accepting Neo Nazis at rallies.

I've said its a vocal minority, i didn't specify where...

but again, i said X not here.

I never said all people who hold 'GC' views are like that, i'm stating that both sides of this have vocal and disgusting people in it. We should all be calling those people out, thats my point.

I didn't make the comment about KJK no.

Let's not derail. You know my views on her organisation and the activities of people associated with it (e.g. going to Tommy Robinson marches). I know yours. There is no mileage in further discussions. I highly doubt any left leaning voters would vote PoW; I doubt many right leaning GC people will vote Labour. So it's a pointless discussion.

no-one going to talk about this?