Nope to labour

[Mrsdeehoang]

I was considering voting for Labour, but their manifesto proposal to change the VAT on private education has made me reconsider. I'm not financially well-off, just about managing, and I took on two jobs to afford the fees for my son’s private grammar school. Despite our efforts, he couldn’t get a place in any of the five local state schools due to oversubscription, and our appeal was unsuccessful. We were instead assigned a school outside our area with a poor Ofsted report. Faced with this choice, I opted to work harder to provide him with a better education privately. The proposed VAT changes would make it even harder for families like mine to manage.

For me, Labour doesn’t seem to understand that not everyone who sends their children to private school is wealthy. I don’t like the Tories either, but I would rather vote for them than for Labour.

No, I have not once in this thread been told what are bigger issues than a girl skipping her education on her period.

NOT...ONCE. If I have, find me the post.

Is there instances of girls not going to school on their period because they don't want a biological male hearing them open their pad wrapper? I would say so yes. But it's not exactly the root cause. The vast majority of teen girls missing school on their period is lack of support on their pain, not having access to treatment they need and mental health.

Here again, you are RE-WRITING what girls are saying. These girls never once mentioned pain. They SAID they have no where to change their pads. That's it. That's all they said.
You are re-writing and misrepresenting what they said. None of them ever once mentioned pain. They had no problems at all going to school with the pain when they had appropriate toilet facilities. Saying they are 'oh they are simply depressed and need appropriate mental help' is offensive and insulting. Not only are you not LISTENING to the REASON, you are saying they need mental help! You're disgusting! Pain and depression is not the issue for these girls. An unsafe place to change pads is. Listen and stop trying to tell us these girls are lying.

Women's healthcare being underfunded is not caused by biological males using female spaces. That is the point we have been trying to make. Majority of women waiting for treatment on insane waiting lists aren't worrying about what sex the person who will be treating them are. They want TREATMENT.

Whether womens health care is underfunded, overfunded, or balanced funded is not the issue. Even if womens healthcare is overfunded, that won't help if no woman is able to access single sex help. Womens health can be overfunded more than the entire Royal family is. That don't mean jack shit if you can't get access to intimate single sex help. You just don't get it. You really just don't get it.

You are completely gaslighting and rewriting what women and girls are saying, and in such a malicious way.

Still waiting on that list.

You are completely gaslighting and rewriting what women and girls are saying, and in such a malicious way.

Yep, and someone's major issue is someone else's minor issue and vice versa. Doesn't mean one gets to minimise or denigrate the other because one doesn't agree.

"what women and girls are saying"

Yeah i've not known any to say that. But know a large amount who face issues with PAIN. Debilitating pain. You are the one stating those girls cared for X, and i explained how Y is a big effect. You are the one gaslighting.

If you cannot see how one effects more than the other, you are being obtuse. If you have deluded yourself into thinking more girls skip school on their period due to worrying about a biological male being in the next stall when they change their pad potentially than miss it due to poor healthcare outcomes for BIOLOGICAL FEMALES, then there is no point in having a discussion.

Malicious? Please provide evidence of where i was intending to cause harm.

If that's true, why do GC seem so angry at others with the opposite opinion?

I never said that those girls issue wasn't valid, i explained how it's not the most probable reason.

Clearly neither of you or myself will change our stance on this and you don't want to have a discussion in good faith.

Yeah i've not known any to say that.

I've just told you that that is what many are saying. Parents have said that on this forum. At education forums, girls have said this. So because 'you' haven't heard it, it 'doesn't happen'.

No, you are using whataboutery. I am saying girls are staying off school BECAUSE there is nowhere to change their pads. If you are not saying they 'never said that', you're engaged in whataboutery, ok but what about Y? What about pain? What about depression? What about what about, what about about, what about?

The topic is having a place to change their sanitary pads. Not pain. Not depression. You engage in whataboutery to CHANGE THE TOPIC. That, is gaslighting.

If you really think more girls are staying off due to pain rather than not have a place to change, you are deluded and willfully so.

Engaging whataboutery, insinuating the girls who testified why they stay off school, are LYING, ('they lied, they really are in pain, or depressed or need mental help') is malicious. To engage whataboutery to re-direct and derail and avoid the sole actual topic, is malicious.

@Alwaystired94 always happy to discuss. But what I won't have is being called a bigot, transphobe, and an extremist for not wanting men in women's spaces and sports. This makes me angry.
I don't care if they identify as trans, it's a male issue for me. Trans women are not women. This is fact. The very basis on which they can BE a transwomen is to be male. No one has to adhere to an ideology, a belief system, if they don't want to. The issue is with men.

GC people are angry at being compelled to believe in something that is fundamental not true, being compelled into speech which goes against principles and has the potential to bring harm on women and girls by ignoring sex safeguarding measure that have been in place for years. Yes TW probably have used bathrooms for years, but now any man can go into spaces just by saying a few magic words.

To highlight legitimate concerns backed up by stats to be met with 'no one cares! You're obsessed with trans people! There are bigger issues!' gets one quite frustrated. Internalised misogyny is what it is.

You can believe what you want. You don't have to compel me or others to believe something too, or shout me down in the process. Or present what is just an opinion as fact. If that's the case post something that backs it up.

That's what's happening here.

OK I'll bit. These are my bigger issues:

• women dying of cancer because they aren't treated in time
• girls missing school because of no camhs support
• high teenage suicide and attempted suicide rates because of no camhs support
• women being choked to death by their partners who have been porn soaked into thinking women like "rough sex" and nothing being done to reduce availability of said violent and degrading porn
• teen girls suffering anal injuries and lifelong rectal issues from anal sex that they and teen boys think they should be having from porn
• children being harmed or killed by their parents or family members due to lack of social services capacity affecting safeguarding
• the effective decriminalisation of rape
• women still being sacked or "made redundant" from their job for having children
• women being killed by their abuser or stalker even when they have reported the abuse and should be protected

All of these are "bigger issues" to me. And my opinion is as valid as yours.

"If you really think more girls are staying off due to pain rather than not have a place to change, you are deluded and willfully so."

Provide studies and proof of your claim then? As it's pretty well documented how many women and girls are failed by our healthcare system when it comes to pain levels.

No, I have not once in this thread been told what are bigger issues than a girl skipping her education on her period.
and i agreed, it's a massive issue But the majority of it is not from what you think it is. Confirmation bias much?

Engaging whataboutery, insinuating the girls who testified why they stay off school, are LYING, ('they lied, they really are in pain, or depressed or need mental help') is malicious.
I never claimed they were lying, stop putting words in others mouths. As per my comment at 16:35: I never said that those girls issue wasn't valid, i explained how it's not the most probable reason.

If you genuinely believe that 'biological males' in female spaces is the #1 barrier to women accessing female healthcare and not going to school while on their period, you are brainwashed.

If you really think more girls are staying off due to pain rather than not have a place to change, you are deluded and willfully so.
Lots of teen girls have awful periods that require them having time off school for pain sometimes
Have you got any statistics to support your opinion it's more common for them to stay off because there is nowhere to change their pads? Because to be frank I can't believe that's true.

Anyway it's a bit off topic for this thread because all this school stuff happened under the Tories. Very weird people use it as a reason not to vote Labour.

exactly, I'd like to see the sources for that statement. That's the most outrageous thing I've seen claimed in one of these threads.

I'd recommend they spend time talking with those suffering from endometriosis, adenomyosis, PCOS and many other conditions which cause us pain to the level we do miss work, school and LIFE. And we don't have access to the treatment we need due to the female centered healthcare being on its knees.

@Universal99

"Unfortunately there are unintended consequences from Labours policy. We are cancelling our charitable donations to our child’s school - that’s one other child who will no longer enjoy a bursary.
Sad."

Has your child's school said they have zero scope for reducing fees to accommodate the cost of VAT for parents?

Because my child's state school provided a great education for my son for 7.5K a year - he left with great grades in all of his A levels.

What does your child's school charge per child per year? If it's double this do you not think the school has some scope for reducing costs?

If any mainstream politician was arguing for those issues to get worse and calling people who wanted cancer waiting times tackled or better rape prosecution rates evil nazi bigots, if I thought they had the power to stop all these things at the stroke of a pen but chose not to, I promise I'd oppose them as strongly as I oppose politicians who choose to ignore and belittle GC concerns.

"they had the power to stop all these things at the stroke of a pen"

What legislation or 'stroke of the pen' would stop trans women from using female spaces as they do now?

Well the Conservative government has certainly made all these issues worse and I rarely see them getting mentioned on FWR. In fact go on the "80 new rape courts" thread to see how seriously that's being taken on there.

But they’re mentioned all the time Cassie. Kemi’s a saint dontcha know? Except she’s all talk.

Enough already - if you pay for private education, you need to be prepared to pay VAT - the fact it has not happened before is a disgrace.

"If any mainstream politician was arguing for those issues to get worse and calling people who wanted cancer waiting times tackled or better rape prosecution rates evil nazi bigots"

In fairness people only refer to transphobes as Nazi bigots when they promulgate views about transgender people that are similar to those found in Nazi literature. "Generally, Nazi ideology considered transgender, non-binary or other gender-non conforming identities as mental illnesses which could (and should) be cured" . You know - the whole thing about seeing trans people as dangerous perverts.

In fairness people only refer to transphobes as Nazi bigots when they promulgate views about transgender people that are similar to those found in Nazi literature. "Generally, Nazi ideology considered transgender, non-binary or other gender-non conforming identities as mental illnesses which could (and should) be cured" . You know - the whole thing about seeing trans people as dangerous perverts.

Do they though? Where has anyone said that ALL trans people are dangerous perverts? Any evidence? Some obviously are. Or is it men that they find problematic?

Would you affirm an anorexic person as fat?

Would you affirm an anorexic person as fat?

And there you are, essentially saying that being trans is a form of mental illness. Out and proud.

It's a dysphoria.

You might want to check your facts there. "when they promulgate views about transgender people that are similar to those found in Nazi literature" has never come into it.

All a woman needs to do to be called a 'nazi' is say women need single sex spaces. That is literally ALL they they need to say. And any woman and every woman who turns up to a Let Woman Speak rally is deemed a nazi. That is all. Nazi literature has never even come into it. Any time a woman like JK says no one can change sex, we are called nazis. Any time a woman says only females menstruate, we are called nazis. Any time a woman says there needs to be safe single sex spaces for women that don't have male bodies there regardless of how they identify, they are called nazis. You have not paid any attention whatsoever. Unless you think stating biological facts, saying women need single sex spaces, and attending a womens rights rallies IS from 'nazi literature'...

Did you know that in the 1970s, men called womens libbers and feminists Feminazis?

This is just same shit, different era/itineration. It's nothing to do with actual nazis, and never was, of course. It's just a way for misogynists and handmaidens to silence women. That is the ONLY motive. These men and handmaidens don't give a stuff about nazis, nazi history or nazi literature. Probably wouldn't know it if they fell over it. It's just a way to demonise women and to keep us silent and in check.

Feminazi, Nazi the shortened version.... same thing. Nothing remotely to do with nazi 'literature'. All to do with hatred of women and keeping us down and removing our rights.

It is mentioned in the DSM as a mental illness. Are you saying the DSM is wrong for listing body dysmorphia and body disphoria as a mental illess? Are you saying you know more than actual medical specialists, @pointythings ?
Btw, many trans people admit the dysphoria is a mental illness, themselves. Are THEY wrong? Or are you just uneducated?

Any further thoughts on why you think it's ok for adult males to be in female changing rooms with women and girls?