Nope to labour

[Mrsdeehoang]

I was considering voting for Labour, but their manifesto proposal to change the VAT on private education has made me reconsider. I'm not financially well-off, just about managing, and I took on two jobs to afford the fees for my son’s private grammar school. Despite our efforts, he couldn’t get a place in any of the five local state schools due to oversubscription, and our appeal was unsuccessful. We were instead assigned a school outside our area with a poor Ofsted report. Faced with this choice, I opted to work harder to provide him with a better education privately. The proposed VAT changes would make it even harder for families like mine to manage.

For me, Labour doesn’t seem to understand that not everyone who sends their children to private school is wealthy. I don’t like the Tories either, but I would rather vote for them than for Labour.

Do you think you can make a law that applies differently to trans men, trans women and non binary people? Sounds like a massive headache to me.

And you might not care about trans and non binary females, but I certainly do. Especially because transitioning FTM seems to be far less well understood, more risky and also the greatest transition pathway.

"Nor should they be walking about in wet near see through trunks (seeing as you needed clarification) in front of six year old girls."

By 'near see through' you mean 'not see through'.

In fairness, when you go swimming there will be men in wet trunks swimming right next to you.

Some of them will be in the children's swimming pool with their children. And your children.

😱

*Males. Males are a threat. As a sex class. How many times does this need to pointed out to you?

Crimes against women get reported everywhere, not just the Daily Mail btw.

They shouldn't be in the female changing rooms though.

Why should there be laws like that? That's absurd and yes it would be a massive headache. So why do it??

It's called MALE or FEMALE.

Laws for males, laws for females.

Those are the only two valid categories. Why are you so obsessed with trans and trans categories? They're irrelevant.

I'd call you a bigot if you refused the TW but wouldn't refuse a man. That would be bigotry.

Errr
Do you really think that more women are failing to get medical attention because of trans HCPs, than because of broken NHS and long waiting lists?

Are more girls refusing to go to school because of toilet provision on their periods or because of mental health issues and a complete lack of CAMHS support?

Do you think women leave the workforce more because of being expected to call a TW colleague she,/her, or because of maternity discrimination or work place bullying by men?

That's what those of us who think this isn't a hill to die on mean. There are issues that are far bigger barriers to women that need dealing with. And feminists can't even organise to discuss them without everything turning into a fight about gender ideology.

I'd call you a bigot if you refused the TW but wouldn't refuse a man. That would be bigotry.

Well seeing as I said 'wanted intimate healthcare by a female' I'm not sure why you are assuming a man wouldn't be refused? Of course a man would be refused. As would a TW as they are both men.

We're talking at cross-purposes, some want to talk about trans and trans only. Some like me want to talk about male and female and male and female only.

You're either male, or female. That someone is trans is as a side issue and as irrelevant as what football team they support. I've already stopped responding to a couple of bad-faith posters earlier on who are trying argue in circles. I am at the point where I don't want to respond to anyone because they aren't addressing the issues and are arguing on a completely different tangent than the rest of us.

Once again, trans is irrelevant.

Two categories - male, and female. If you were born male, you stick to the male spaces.

It really is that simple.

Well said 👏

Do you really think that more women are failing to get medical attention because of trans HCPs, than because of broken NHS and long waiting lists?

Do you think that there are long waiting lists mean women and girls aren't discouraged by the fact that they are not allowed to ask for a female provider?

Are more girls refusing to go to school because of toilet provision on their periods or because of mental health issues and a complete lack of CAMHS support?

Girls themselves have said they can't change their pads at school, so they stay on on their period. They THEMSELVES said...this. Are you saying these girls are lying?

Do you think women leave the workforce more because of being expected to call a TW colleague she,/her, or because of maternity discrimination or work place bullying by men?

Women here have said they left the workforce BECAUSE they had no toilet facilities at work. That is what they THEMSELVES said. Are you saying they're lying?

You're not listening to what women are saying.

There are issues that are far bigger barriers to women that need dealing with

Yes, people say that. But none of them ever have the honesty, courage or decency to say what bigger barrier is there, than to a girl having miss school because she's on her period. Or a woman not able to have fluids all day at a work, even in the summer, because she feels unable to use toilet facilities at work. If anyone can explain these barriers, and EXPLAIN HOW they are MORE IMPORTANT than period poverty or UTIs, I am all ears.

It will be crickets though, obviously.

To you they are irrelevant. But not to everyone. Some people find their gender identity very much relevant. Why is your opinion more important than theirs? Genuine question.

I'm just going to note that, today there was a Womans hour election special.

The GC here appear to have massively spammed the emails with the "what is a woman question" and got it discussed, for a while, none of whom (except the reform candidate) said the magic words that the GC wanted.

Now there appears to be some of them who are going to protest vote for reform.

Do you know why none of the candidates of the major parties said the magic words?

Because they realise to most people that its a non-issue and that creating a fuss of pleasing one group whilst annoying another just isn't worth the political points. Just fudge the answer and its easier. It doesn't win any votes on the doorstep.

Yet now people are talking about allying themselves with a party that has proposed to do things that would totally disproportionately damage women, just over this one issue.

Rather proves my point

"Errr
Do you really think that more women are failing to get medical attention because of trans HCPs, than because of broken NHS and long waiting lists?"

Yes - yes they do. Despite this situation being vanishingly rare, in their minds IT'S AN ENORMOUS PROBLEM.

"Neither me or any of my friends or family have actually ever met a trans person but I've read a lot of articles in the Daily Mail/Telegraph/threads on Twitter and that's how know their existence is a huge existential threat to me and all women".

I didn't say any different, i was explaining where bigotry WOULD come into it...

And that is what I mean about black and white.
You might want it to be that simple. And you might feel the world would be better if it was that simple. But the fact is, it isn't that simple. Some people have gender dysphoria. There is a legal framework in place to protect transgender people from discrimination because of their gender identity. Most of the UK population supports that. So no, the reality is it isn't "that simple. It's complex and messy and involves conflicts that aren't going to go away just by forcing one viewpoint or the other.

""Neither me or any of my friends or family have actually ever met a trans person but I've read a lot of articles in the Daily Mail/Telegraph/threads on Twitter and that's how know their existence is a huge existential threat to me and all women"."

🙄

Here we go again. At cross purposes. We've all met a male. Whether they are trans or not, is fucking irrelevant!! Any male in womens spaces, stopping girls from going to school on their period or causing a woman to get a UTI because he is in their toilets IS a huge existential threat for women. Ask any girl that stays home from school on her period if you think it's not a 'huge existential threat'. FFS. There are none so blind...

"Neither me or any of my friends or family have actually ever met a trans person but I've read a lot of articles in the Daily Mail/Telegraph/threads on Twitter and that's how know their existence is a huge existential threat to me and all women".

Translation - 'me and my friends know that of the sexual and violent crimes that occur, 98% are committed by males. Transwomen are included in this figure as they are males. Males as a sex class are more problematic than females. As a result of this, our little lady brains realise that single sex provisions/safeguarding measures are important. After all, some spaces are segregated by sex for a reason.'

It really is YOU that is obsessed with transwomen. Not us. We just don't want men in our spaces. It's that simple.

Its quite hard to discuss this if it's not possible to have a concept of relative priorities.
Two issues:

1. A girl refuses school while she's on her period because of the risk a boy might hear her opening her sanpro

2. A girl refuses school because she has untreated anxiety and depression.

Which do you think is most common? Which do you think has the biggest impact on the girl affected? And therefore, at a population level which should be the priority for resources?

One can say they think there are bigger issues facing women without it equating to they aren't listening to women, think they are lying or don't care

Anyway. I'm also leaving the thread as I'm wholly in agreement with Aladdin.

I didn't say any different, i was explaining where bigotry WOULD come into it...

Bit pointless to try and attribute potential bigotry where none would take place in that particular situation.

Yet again, you won't tell us what those 'bigger issues' are.

No one ever does.

*Yet again, you won't tell us what those 'bigger issues' are.

No one ever does.*

Or the 'certain situations where it's ok for transwomen to be in women's spaces'.

you have been told many times of this thread, but you have turned it round to be because of 'males' in female spaces.

Is there instances of girls not going to school on their period because they don't want a biological male hearing them open their pad wrapper? I would say so yes. But it's not exactly the root cause. The vast majority of teen girls missing school on their period is lack of support on their pain, not having access to treatment they need and mental health.

Women's healthcare being underfunded is not caused by biological males using female spaces. That is the point we have been trying to make. Majority of women waiting for treatment on insane waiting lists aren't worrying about what sex the person who will be treating them are. They want TREATMENT.

Similar on other issues, there will be some who do cite that as a reason but the vast majority is due to other factors. If we can have a discussion about those key issues without either side mentioning trans/biological males in female spaces that would be a lot better for women.