Nope to labour

[Mrsdeehoang]

I was considering voting for Labour, but their manifesto proposal to change the VAT on private education has made me reconsider. I'm not financially well-off, just about managing, and I took on two jobs to afford the fees for my son’s private grammar school. Despite our efforts, he couldn’t get a place in any of the five local state schools due to oversubscription, and our appeal was unsuccessful. We were instead assigned a school outside our area with a poor Ofsted report. Faced with this choice, I opted to work harder to provide him with a better education privately. The proposed VAT changes would make it even harder for families like mine to manage.

For me, Labour doesn’t seem to understand that not everyone who sends their children to private school is wealthy. I don’t like the Tories either, but I would rather vote for them than for Labour.

It isn't about what you claim, it just isn't.

It is! It just IS. And if you had truly listened, you'd know that. I can PROMISE you, it is. You just don't want to believe it.

How often and likely are all of the things that you list, you argue into extremes all the time.

At work? Every day.
In education? All the time.
In health? Every day a woman is told she cannot have intimate care.
In society? Every day a woman stops participating.

So, every...single....day.

But there are far many more important issues that impact them far more and on a far higher scale.

No, there are not! What is more important than health?
What is more important that keeping girls on their period in school?
What is more important than women staying in the workforce, and contributing to the economy?
What is more important that female participation in society?

Um, I am not speaking about trans people.

I am speaking about MALES. Whether they're trans or not, is beside the point

How many times do I need to say this?

Just want 'inclusive' language have I got angry at?

Unless you mean language that demeans us and calls us by our genitals (such as uterus haver) and "front hole" (they want to say c.un.t, we all know that, that's how disgusting their views are on women).

My view is that language demeans any female. Whether a 'c*s' woman or a trans men. So again, you just don't get it. You are so hung up on trans as a category, you cannot see it is about MALE vs FEMALE. Trans is incidental and a side-issue.

I'm not voting Labour either, but I do wonder why, given only 7% of the population are privately educated, the VAT on private education is getting so much coverage?

Tell me what issue is 'more important' than making sure a girl doesn't miss school on her period?

FFS, we're supposed to be a developed country. Not somewhere like Africa, Somalia or Nigera.

Or is it because she only has her period once a month that it 'doesn't matter' if she misses 3 days off school every month?

Add that up over a the entire high schooling.

"I am speaking about MALES. Whether they're trans or not, is beside the point"

But you talk of ideology, and of it being fake. That means you are including Transmen too, you are saying you don't believe them either.

"It is! It just IS. And if you had truly listened, you'd know that. I can PROMISE you, it is. You just don't want to believe it."

It isn't. Shout it as loudly as you like. The fact that there have not been thousands of threads on here about other much larger issues in anything like the way it has been done on this subject clearly demonstrates it.

"At work? Every day.
In education? All the time.
In health? Every day a woman is told she cannot have intimate care.
In society? Every day a woman stops participating."

I think if you were to ask women in the street if trans issues impact them at work, in education, health and society, I bet most would say no. The level of impact is miniscule and after that the risk of anything negative happening is even tinier.

"What is more important than health?
What is more important that keeping girls on their period in school?
What is more important than women staying in the workforce, and contributing to the economy?
What is more important that female participation in society?"

There are far many more important issues impacting women's health, education, workforce and participation in society than the ones that you raise.

You don't do anything about those because it requires agency from you, you just pretend to speak for others here and use it as cover for the issues, which are about you.

That means you are including Transmen too, you are saying you don't believe them either.

Transmen are females. Hence this ideology affects ALL FEMALES. What is it that you cannot grasp about this? I call them females. You, seem to think being transmen makes them different from females. It is FEMALE and MALE. Trans has nothing to do with it. They're female.

The fact that there have not been thousands of threads on here about other much larger issues

Um... doesn't that prove to you how BIG an issue this is?!?? Wow. It really didn't click with you, did it?

if trans issues impact them at work, in education, health and society, I bet most would say no.
Again, and I am so tired of saying this, it's about FEMINIST issues. Not 'trans issues'. So your question to them wouldn't make sense.

There are far many more important issues impacting women's health, education, workforce and participation in society than the ones that you raise.

Please list to me the issues that are 'far more important' than girls not missing school on their period, women being able to have female-only intimate care (google Henrietta Freeman - in a wheelchair, can't walk, move or speak, but denied a female career to change her sanitary pads), having a place to work where you can use the toilet and not risk an RTI, or women staying home and not participating in society.
Go on, please list these 'more important issues'.

You don't do anything about those because it requires agency from you, you just pretend to speak for others here and use it as cover for the issues, which are about you.

More discrediting and projecting and misrepresenting from you. You do not know me, you don't know the hands on work I do in real life. Again, your ASSumptions are all so you don't have to use critical thinking and face reality.

"I'm not voting Labour either, but I do wonder why, given only 7% of the population are privately educated, the VAT on private education is getting so much coverage?"

"51% of leading journalists educated and working in the UK in 2015 were privately educated, according to the social mobility think tank the Sutton Trust"

To put that in perspective - only 14% of Labour MPs attended private schools.

It's like trying to debate with Gordon the Gopher with his fingers in his ears.

Where did '98% of people don't care about this stuff' come from? Does anyone bother to back up their opinions they present as facts with you know, evidence?

Um... doesn't that prove to you how BIG an issue this is?!??

It proves to me how incredibly obsessive a very small number of posters are. And how they think shouting is effective as a persuasive debating tool. It’s not.

The transmen issue has already been explained. As they are female, they don't pose as much of a threat as a sex class like males do. They don't possess an advantage in sports that male bodies do. Is this really so difficult to understand?

Some of them are so brainwashed they cannot see the issue. They truly think transwomen are no longer male and therefore a separate cateory entirely, and thus don't affect women when they're in our spaces. That's how they disassociate. They won't listen to reason. We have one insisting there are 'more important issues' than a girl HAVING TO SKIP SCHOOL ON HER PERIOD, ffs! What more important an issue can there be, than that? Or a female with a disability unable to get a female carer to change her sanitary pads? Just what ARE these mythical 'more important issues' that are more important than girls health and education and the needs of women and girls with a disability?

I give up replying again to these posters. They are beyond help. They will run you in circles swearing 'period poverty' isn't an issue and the Urinary Leash (which is making a comeback) 'never happened'. You can't reason with someone who doesn't want to be reasoned with or learn or open their minds. The programming is far too strong. There is hope though. I was once like them. They have to learn for themselves. If they aren't too far gone eventually it will all 'click' and they'll remember threads like these.

"Unless you mean language that demeans us and calls us by our genitals (such as uterus haver) and "front hole" (they want to say c.un.t, we all know that, that's how disgusting their views are on women)."

This is completely deranged.

You read something on social media and it immediately becomes 'this is what all trans people and people who support trans inclusion believe and say."

And who is 'they'? Who?

Women are 'obsessed' with the issue of womens rights?

Wow. Where did we hear that last?

The 1970s.

98% is hyperbole of course (which i am guilty of)

but there was a thread a week or so ago i need to find which broke down women asking what the key issues they were voting on were and TW/Gender Ideology was not a key issue for the majority of women. The key ones were healthcare and COL. I will continue to keep looking for that thread as it was very informative from both sides.

You are tying yourself in knots here lol.

"Um... doesn't that prove to you how BIG an issue this is?!?? Wow. It really didn't click with you, did it?"

No it shows its the hobby horse of some people who are obsessed. Most people have been massively turned off the topic by the way you have all pushed it so hard over the years.

"So your question to them wouldn't make sense"

Most women wouldn't associate this particular issue of being a big feminist issue in any of those parts of society, because very few will ever actually have interacted with anyone who is trans.

"Go on, please listthese 'more important issues'."

I have done on this thread, it got ignored. But there are many that impact woman far more than this.

You are obsessed with this, you and the others here, you've taken incidents where there have been poorly applied policies and things have gone badly wrong, and extrapolated it to what is happening in the general population, when it just isn't. You do so to inflate the risks.

You inflate the risks because you want to make these bad faith arguments "for the vulnerable".

I'm going to bow out now because you seem to becoming more and more irate, and I think I should stop provoking that.

But consider this as a parting shot. I think you, and the other GC fundamentalists on here, have done far more damage to your cause than good. A bit like the private school parents, most people aren't as effected, or are slightly favoured away from you in the first place. People have stopped listening to you,

'this is what all trans people and people who support trans inclusion believe and say."

🙄I never...said....anything....about....trans people.

It's about the misogynistic language used. For whatever reason. You and your ilk are obsessed with trans people that you cannot see that many of us don't SEE trans. We just see MALE and FEMALE.

The key ones were healthcare

It would become a very big issue if you wanted intimate healthcare provision by a female and a TW walked in. Women are being called bigots and transphobes for not wanting such care. See also Roz Adams vs The Edinburgh Rape Crisis centre tribunal.

Gender ideology very much affects healthcare.

@SoreAndTired1

"They truly think transwomen are no longer male and therefore a separate cateory entirely, and thus don't affect women when they're in our spaces"

We've already heard about the trauma of another poster's friend's daughter seeing a transwoman in a bathing suit at a swimming pool.

Can you talk about your personal experience of being threatened and oppressed by trans women?

The programming is far too strong.

That is your opinion, and people on the opposite side of the spectrum will doubtless feel the same about you. Of course people won't change their minds when all we do is argue and scream at each other? Who would?

Your own example "HAVING TO SKIP SCHOOL ON HER PERIOD, " is not a TWAW/TWANW issue? it's an issue that our healthcare is underfunded, research is not done into conditions that only effect us and we have to fight for YEARS to get help. I don't know of any girls having to skip school on her period due to transwomen being in the bathroom stall, but i do know of many who have had to due to their pain not being taken seriously. Due to not being able to access treatment that can help them.

The rhetoric from both sides is the issue. A woman in a rape crisis centre not wanting a man to do her intimate examination due to obvious trauma? Valid. If another woman doesn't want a blood test to be done by a TW because they are 'trans', that is where bigotry comes into play. If someone has a safety concern and does not feel comfortable with either TW or men fair play. if they just don't want a TW but would accept treatment from a man, how is not bigotry?

I've seen some of these women say they wouldn't accept ANY help from a TW because of danger but then align themselves with proven dangerous men because they agree with them on woman = female born with vulva.

It's about the misogynistic language used. For whatever reason. You and your ilk are obsessed with trans people that you cannot see that many of us don't SEE trans. We just see MALE and FEMALE.

It's so SO true. I've said time and time again on this thread, it's males. Males. I don't care if they are trans, or however else they want to present. And yet it's still 'you're a bigot', and 'extremist' which squeezed out a chuckle.

We've already heard about the trauma of another poster's friend's daughter seeing a transwoman in a bathing suit at a swimming pool.

Changing room. For females and girls. Where they are in varying stages of undress. Where men shouldn't be. Nor should they be walking about in wet near see through trunks (seeing as you needed clarification) in front of six year old girls.

The fact that what came from that story is that you were desperate to find some sort of transphobia. Oh that poor cisgender man in a cossie. The fact that this was the important factor for you in trying to what, win some sort of shite argument, and not that a grown male was in a space he should be and that he was clearly 'trans'. Being trans was by the by. He made my friend and her daughter uncomfortable and shouldn't have been there in the first place. There were other details like I said, but I am not obliged to give you, a stranger on the internet, them if I don't want to.

Have a word with yourself.

Can you talk about your personal experience of being threatened and oppressed by trans women?

And again, why does someone need to have personal experience of being threatened and oppressed? Oh it hasn't happened to me so I'm not bothered attitude constantly displayed on this thread?

I'm shite at sports. Can completely understand and empathise though with the stories of Riley Gaines and the other swimmers negatively impacted having to see Lia Thomas and his penis in their swimming pool changing rooms and taking a place which meant a woman missed out.

This is possible without it happening to me.

I know a lot of GC men. And a lot of men still have a very territorial attitude towards "their" women and won't want males anywhere near them. That's before you get on to men with regressive and homiphobic ideas about gender.

Can you talk about your personal experience of being threatened and oppressed by trans women?

And again, why does someone need to have personal experience of being threatened and oppressed? Oh it hasn't happened to me so I'm not bothered attitude constantly displayed on this thread?"

So if you weren't reading articles in the Daily Mail about transgender women making females feel uncomfortable by looking at them and being in the same room as them, or constantly reading threads by GC in which they swap horror stories about things they've read on Twitter - how would you know that trans women are a huge threat to the welfare of all of us? If neither you or anyone you know has ever knowingly shared any space with a transgender person?