Nope to labour

[Mrsdeehoang]

I was considering voting for Labour, but their manifesto proposal to change the VAT on private education has made me reconsider. I'm not financially well-off, just about managing, and I took on two jobs to afford the fees for my son’s private grammar school. Despite our efforts, he couldn’t get a place in any of the five local state schools due to oversubscription, and our appeal was unsuccessful. We were instead assigned a school outside our area with a poor Ofsted report. Faced with this choice, I opted to work harder to provide him with a better education privately. The proposed VAT changes would make it even harder for families like mine to manage.

For me, Labour doesn’t seem to understand that not everyone who sends their children to private school is wealthy. I don’t like the Tories either, but I would rather vote for them than for Labour.

@Aladdinzane There are many high profile trans people who say that gender dysphoria is not a necessary part of a trans identity. Take it up with them.

And that's before you get to the small number of people who are faking it for whatever reason.

@Underthinker

"There are many high profile trans people who say that gender dysphoria is not a necessary part of a trans identity. "

This needs to be evidenced and in context though. Not just repeated by you here in order to be able to dismiss trans people.

@DownWithThisKindOfThing

"I’m sick of this absolute bollocks and the people who go along with it."

And there we go.

This is why no one listens and in reality, no one else thinks its as big an issue as all the GC people here.

The empathy with which you treat others and the absolutism that you demand are simply repelling the majority.

It isn't about the safety of women and children, and most people see that.

Here's what yhe American Psychiatric Association says...

"Not all transgender people suffer from gender dysphoria and that distinction is important to keep in mind. Gender dysphoria and/or coming out as transgender can occur at any age."

https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/expert-q-and-a

@Underthinker but then it doesn't state that they are making it up, or that there might not be other issues which have led to someone being trans gender.

Do you really think there are people who just decide to create this hardship in their lives for fun? Its what you are implying.

@Aladdinzane Ididn't say they were all making it up did I? I just said not all trans people have GD. But that wasn't the main point I was making anyway. The point was regardless whether someone has distress about their sex or any other part of their identity, it's not up to me or wider society to collude in pretending we all believe what they believe about themselves.

"it's not up to me or wider society to collude in pretending we all believe what they believe about themselves"

You don't have to believe it, you just have to behave in a way which civil and make some minor allowances. Like we all do as part of a society.

@Aladdinzane
Civil, yes. Allow in women's spaces, no. That's not minor.

@Underthinker

Again with the absolutism.

Transwomen in some women's spaces, not all.

It's minor.

I seriously doubt Labour were expecting to get the votes of many wealthy - oh pardon me, I mean ‘striving’ of course- private school parents anyway.

But if you can look at the absolute shit heap the Tories have turned our country into over the past 14 years and whine about VAT charges - then you do you love.

After all, who really cares about the health and education of the next generation of kids, who will hold the future of the country in their hands? Better that a handful of well off people don’t pay more for their privilege…

@Itllfalloff

"I seriously doubt Labour were expecting to get the votes of many wealthy - oh pardon me, I mean ‘striving’ of course- private school parents anyway"

Except that it will be the actual children at the private schools that have to suffer the consequences of this policy by having to move schools due to a change in Government policy.

"Except that it will be the actual children at the private schools that have to suffer the consequences of this policy by having to move schools due to a change in Government policy."

Very few.

Also, who said that no one should ever be impacted by government policy? There is a whole generation of children, millions and millions of children impacted by cuts to education and more.

The "won't someone please think of the children" is an appeal to emotion.

If a space/event doesn't need to be sex-segregated, then it shouldn't be. That's sex discrimination.

However if the rationale for it being single-sex is significant enough to justify it, then by definition transwomen should be excluded from from the female space and/or transmen excluded from the male space.

If it's OK for transwomen to be there, then it's OK for men to be there - and so it shouldn't be women-only in the first place. All men should be permitted.

Happy for there to be discussion about which spaces should be women-only. Eg a sports competition, a changing room, a hospital ward, a prison: they all have different reasons to be sex-segregated, which should certainly be examined separately.

Not happy for transwomen to go into spaces which have been designated women-only.

Being honest about what's actually being figured out (ie whether a space or service genuinely should be sex-segregated) avoids emotional responses and attempts to guilt trip people.

"Except that it will be the actual children at the private schools that have to suffer the consequences of this policy by having to move schools due to a change in Government policy."

Very few.

Also, who said that no one should ever be impacted by government policy? There is a whole generation of children, millions and millions of children impacted by cuts to education and more.

Very few indeed. But the numbers of TW who would have to suffer the consequences of not being allowed in women's toilets and changing rooms are also very few. But for some reason this demographic must never be allowed to be impacted by government policy.

Why are you so niave you think it is even remotely a 'hardship', @Aladdinzane ? Most don't have surgery or even hormones. The most 'hardship' it entails is slipping on a dress. That's all. Considering teachers, priests etc take many years to train and get near their victims, WHY do you think a bloke putting on a dress is any hardship at all? You are incredibly niave. It's the easiest thing to do, if you want to prey on girls and requires minimal to zero effort.
(Not saying all transwomen are predators, just making the point it takes zero effort, for maximum reward).

Women and girls have been socialised from childhood to make 'compromises' to outright 100% prioritising males.

Where are the compromises from these males? It's all one way.

Women are the oppressed class. All the allowances should be from the male class. NOT women and girls!

Yes, womens safety, privacy, dignity and human rights requires 100% absolutism.

NO MALES in any womens spaces. NONE. ZERO. Never ever ever.

Do you understand?

@SoreAndTired1
I think it's perfectly clear that the poster you are quoting was referring to people who are trans l, not "just a bloke putting. a dress on."
Why would you put yourself through being trans and all the anguish that must come with it?
(As you said yourself, not all trans women are predators, so you must agree or at least be able to see the point a bit if you truly do believe that and not just saying it?)

It's about the inclusion of MALE BODIES, in womens spaces, @izimbra .

Not trans people.

But MALE BODIES with penis and testicles!

You genuinely seem to think that if a male dons a dress and calls himself a woman, he is a separate class from men.

This is about MEN. MALE. M.A.L.E.

That they're trans is purely incidental.

How does one tell a 'genuine' transwoman from someone just pretending they are to have access to women's spaces?

Women would really benefit from this wisdom.

If you make allowances for some that space then becomes mixed sex as a default. And that's not acceptable.

It is a suicide ideation cult that weaponises suicide to control, coerce and manipulate to get what they want. No different from a man who tells his partner that is leaving him due to his abuse that he will 'kill myself if you leave me'. No therapist recommends giving into suicide threats.
However, evidence shows transpeople despite weaponising it, rarely do it. https://unherd.com/newsroom/new-study-trans-youth-not-at-elevated-risk-of-suicide/

@SoreAndTired1

It isn't being used as a threat, unheard isn't a valid source.

@SoreAndTired1

". Most, don't even use hormones. It is purely cross-dressing. And they don't go through any anguish. In fact, they get a 'high' from getting one over women. It is an act of spite from males."

And there we go. Another post which pulls back the mask and reveals the real agenda.

You co-opt the protection of women and girls for this one issue, no others, you don't really care and it is obvious to the vast majority of people.

Seriously, the more this debate goes on the more you expose yourselves. The more you don't understand why people don't listen to you.

Zealots who care only about one thing, the risks of which are wholly incompatible to the endless hours you've spent howling at the moon about it here.

I can't wait for the meltdowns when Labour win.