Why are private school parents punished when they remove a financial burden from the taxpayer?

[FishPhoods]

My DC do not go to private school, if I could afford it I would.

However - this policy makes no sense to me. I'm a TA. The school I work in has huge class sizes and is overstretched.

Starmer is saying that the VAT he proposes to add to private school fees will be channelled into the state education system. However we use the facilities of the local private school (swimming pool, sports fields) two days per week for no charge. If they lose their charitable status we lose access to that.

Also any money gained from VAT will potentially be outweighed by more pupils joining from the local private - or pupils who would have potentially gone but now won't. It costs the taxpayer roughly £8k per year to educate a child in the state system - we won't gain anything like that from VAT to cover the "new" pupils we acquire from the private system.

The way I see it if the rich can afford to or choose to pay for their children's education it's one less burden on the taxpayer. And making schools more expensive just makes them more elitist surely? Financially I just don't see how this makes any sense - is it just a populist thing as people generally feel aggrieved that some have the option of private education when some don't, so it's a way to punish them?

Lots of times it isn’t even about money - the restrictions in the state maintained schools could mean materials beyond national curriculum is not allowed to be taught to more abled children, or how parents donated money can be spent on. Some schools make an effort to find sneaky ways to allow more learning, but too many don’t.

Hello brand new account created to post a Tory talking point, how are you?

I agree with the OP.
If you earn well you can have a bigger house, flash cars, private healthcare, expensive holidays, better pension etc but wow betide you want to have you children educated at the school of your choice at your own cost.🤔

Our local private school allows local state schools the use of buildings, playing fields, sports facilities and even the minibuses (Inc drivers), all at no cost.
If that stops, whose fault will it be?

Entry to Eton depends on entry exam so in that sense it’s ’blind’ but it does help if generations of your family have attended. But before your DC sit the exam, you’d have to consider whether you can afford the fees, the uniform, the keeping up with the extras.
Next misconception, EU countries don’t have an elitist private school system like the UK. Finland is considered the model state system that creates generations of well educated, happy children.
Section 47 schools are exempt from VAT as they are SEND schools, a lot are private but majority of pupils are funded by EHCPs.
When Labour under Blair forced private schools to earn their charitable status by throwing a few crumbs to the local community, there was a small but not seismic shift.
If the parents spending their time and energy into defending a system that caters to a rich 7% of children shifted into supporting the state system then it would make a huge difference to the whole state school cohort. That is why it is just and equitable to level education for all not entrench an unfair system where bright kids cannot compete with average kids who go to elitist private schools. And by throwing everyone in together, class divisions might in time soften and dissolve. I definitely prefer this to Sunak’s daft national service idea

But then the state will be paying for their education rather than gaining tax from them to be at private school. That helps how exactly?

The two tier system makes me very uncomfortable but thinking purely financially, I think the entire public school system will get worse - wheres the additional funding for all the extra state students going to come from ?

I’ve only just started reading the threads on this topic and it’s really entertaining to watch the attempts to sway public opinion. I’m seeing fabrications and low educational levels from the pro-private side which is illuminating. Presumably as usual foot soldiers have been wound up and pointed.

Oh, and the average private school costs over £15k per year. Vat on that would be £3k per student. Even if one in four leave (they won't) , the VAT on the remaining three will more than cover that one's state schooling.

The policy won't be based on fact and reason and logic. Like all political policies these days they are based on populism. What will win me votes. That's why our country is fucked. No one is actually interested in doing a good job running the country. None of our politicians seem to have actual principles (good or bad).

100 %!!!!

They will never be as good because the people at the top will continue to fund them. All it will do is price out the aspirational middle, the scholarship kids and the state schools that benefit from the charitable provision.

There's also the issue of paying the cost of travel. Where a school place is beyond 3 miles, the LA is obliged to pay for transport to and from school.

If you can pay £15k a year per child I can only imagine how much the holidays cost... could this be a cut back or downgrade car? Pay less into pension?

So the brightest kids should suffer?

For the love of God. How many more of these threads do we need.

This election is vital in so many different ways, the country is trashed and people have been struggling for far too long.

But the topic that everyone cares about is VAT on private education.

GET THE FUCK OVER IT.

I find the policy and the support it gets quite upsetting because it makes me feel like there is hostility from the general public towards those who’ve chosen private education.

The introduction of vat won’t affect the super rich, it will only affect those who’ve reluctantly been forced into the private system as a last resort due to being outside a good catchment / sen issues / bullying etc and can only just afford it.

I don’t know why there is so much judgment for paying for education when you don’t get the same judgment for tutoring your kid into a grammar or choosing to pay more to live in an area with good state schools. Surely making sacrifices to prioritise your child’s education is a good thing.

Why would the brightest suffer when they and everyone would be getting a good education in non selective schools?

This is in the current specifically-established General Election 2024 topic, and VAT on school fees is literally one of the very big political concerns that is guiding many people's opinions and voting choices.

You may as well (freely choose to) go on the Litter Tray topic and complain that everybody there is obsessed with and constantly going on about cats!

Omfg. Just leave the poor thickos to suffer, not the brightest (defined by income) they must be used to it by now anyway. Stupid plebs.

To be fair, a thread entitled "Why are private school parents punished when they remove a financial burden from the taxpayer?" is hardly luring people who don't want to discuss the matter on false or ambiguous pretences, is it? It's about as Ronseal a title name as you could hope for.

I see dozens of MN thread titles every day that don't interest me in the slightest. Rather than choosing to engage and participate in them, just to tell everybody on them that I personally find them boring, I just ignore them, leave them for those who are interested in discussing them and find something that interests me instead.

I don't understand why people are so upset about this. This country needs more taxes to fund services. This VAT will largely affect only the very wealthy and those who can't afford it can move to a cheaper private school or go to a state school. Not all private schools charge the same fees. The vast majority of private schools are used by those who can easily afford it, not some imaginary aspirational middle class who count pennies by candlelight, they were priced out about a decade ago. Both my children go to private schools, fees at my school have almost doubled during my kids' time there and yet they still have a long waiting list. In London, fees are between £18k and £21k a year, this is beyond the reach of most parents even well-paid ones.

Labour are appealing to their core voters, these private parents aren't voting Labour, I think it is a smart move on their part. There will probably be unintended consequences but I have no problem with the principle behind it. Private schools allowing local state schools to use their pools doesn't make them charities!

Mainly private educated conservative politicians have led to a state where many people can't afford children at all or can only afford one. So there are plenty of state school places currently

This.

There is hostility. And judgement. The majority of people support this policy.

It is rather interesting that, despite the number of threads on the matter, there is quite a lot of confusion and misinformation, including amongst those expressing rather strong views on the matter.
The issue of VAT is unrelated to the status as a charity that some schools (but not all) have.
VAT on schools (or education, more generally) is not charged anywhere in Europe and neither is a consumption tax levied in non EU countries like Australia or Norway. In fact, countries like Finland or Denmark (and quite a few others) actually subsidise the sector.
In certain areas, private schools cater for well beyond the 7 pc frequently mentioned..over 20 pc in some London boroughs. With a recent survey putting the percentage of parents considering leaving the private sector at 40%, the impact will be significant on the demand for state schools.
One of the reasons why the issue has generated quite a lot of interest is that it is of the very few areas where labour has made specific proposals rather than generic statements. Also, there is a potential read across to other issues - would they tax other education provision (private tuition, private universities, ..., even tertiary education more generally)? And not to mention the potential read across to private health ...