Why are private school parents punished when they remove a financial burden from the taxpayer?

[FishPhoods]

My DC do not go to private school, if I could afford it I would.

However - this policy makes no sense to me. I'm a TA. The school I work in has huge class sizes and is overstretched.

Starmer is saying that the VAT he proposes to add to private school fees will be channelled into the state education system. However we use the facilities of the local private school (swimming pool, sports fields) two days per week for no charge. If they lose their charitable status we lose access to that.

Also any money gained from VAT will potentially be outweighed by more pupils joining from the local private - or pupils who would have potentially gone but now won't. It costs the taxpayer roughly £8k per year to educate a child in the state system - we won't gain anything like that from VAT to cover the "new" pupils we acquire from the private system.

The way I see it if the rich can afford to or choose to pay for their children's education it's one less burden on the taxpayer. And making schools more expensive just makes them more elitist surely? Financially I just don't see how this makes any sense - is it just a populist thing as people generally feel aggrieved that some have the option of private education when some don't, so it's a way to punish them?

No. Why not have good schools for all.

They don't create social mobility, they are just used by the wealthy to get a free private style education where only the odd FSM pupil is admitted and rarely any SEN. They are overwhelmingly full of ex private prep students. At the taxpayers expense. Champagne socialism at it's finest.

If private schools are a business and should pay Vat. Why does the same rule not apply to tutors etc they are also a business. Why should the burden fall on independent schools would it not be fairer that all tax payers contribute a little bit more to better state schools ?

I literally know no one who does this. And there’s 3 private schools within 10 minutes of me.

@Definitelysometime

"They’re not ‘being punished’, though. They’re being told to pay VAT like any other businesses."

No other country in the world levies tax on education. If you are going to add VAT to private schools then you should also add it to university fees, tutoring, summer schools.

I think l said grammars need to go early on in the thread. They buy into the elitism shit too.

I don’t know how much money it will raise imposing VAT on private schools.

But l do know this:

The state system is collapsing and needs any funds from anywhere and the country has no money. So where are funds supposed to come from without this?

Labour has nailed its colours to the mast on this and it is a point of honour . Good for them, the majority of the country support it and all kids need a decent education.

Where’s Rishi’s plan for education? He just bleats about small boats on repeat.

What about VAT on private healthcare next? Would people support that too? Same thing surely.

Currently every one of the 550,000 odd kids in private school are saving the state £8k per year each. £4.4bn per year if my maths is right. And their parents are paying the same tax that covers that education they're not using as those that are using it (and, let's face it, the majority of private school parents will already be net contributors rather than beneficiaries).

It's a stupid policy which is only designed to whip up envy and a desire to get one over "the rich". I'd bet my bottom dollar it won't make anywhere near the figures Labour are throwing around, so small indies will go under, people will lose jobs, kids will leave their schools because parents can't stretch to it anymore, and it won't make a jot of difference to the broken state sector. It's like adding VAT to private healthcare and saying it'll save the NHS - total nonsense.

Tutors are mainly self employed and don’t operate as charities.

Universities are state funded so how do you charge vat on something you already pay for? And are open (in theory) to everyone. They are a necessity not a luxury.

Who even sends their kids to summer schools? What are they? Summer childcare? Why should they be charged extra? State school parents have to use them too. They aren’t a luxury. They are a necessity.

Tutors are mainly self employed and don’t operate as charities.

So by your logic, they should be charging VAT, if we're going to start on indie schools

Because they are a business and should pay tax like any other business.

Universities are state funded so how do you charge vat on something you already pay for?

I must have imagined the £9k a year I paid for uni then?

Universities are mostly not state funded nowadays. They get some core funding for facilities and to provide STEM subjects. All other teaching has to be funded by student feed and research is funded by grants.

Private schools already pay VAT on the goods and services they buy. What's being proposed is that they charge VAT to parents on school fees. They will be able to deduct the VAT they pay from that before they hand it over to the government. What with that and the fairly large number of extra kids turning up in state schools, I'd be surprised if it raises very much. It's a gesture.

Labour won't do it. Guarantee it.

And yes private healthcare provision would also be a business.

Private schools take up too many teachers. If private schools close, there will be more teachers for the vacancies in state schools.

Yes I know some private school teachers will refuse to work in state, but most will be fine with it. Many teachers move between the two sectors during their careers.

They are subsidised. The cost per student is a lot more than 9k. And even after being subsidised they are making a loss. Read about the latest redundancies.

This really.

Private school parents aren't doing everyone a favour so that they may save the state cash. They are buying their way into a system that perpetuates inequality and squashes social mobility.

VAT on a luxury (because that is what private education is given that the free state version is available to all) is not punishment.

If private schools close and the teachers therefore need new jobs, it would follow that the pupils they teach would also need new schools...not sure your logic really works there. The private school kids don't disappear off the face of the earth

Anyone cheering on the addition of VAT to private school fees should be careful what they wish for. Once we start allowing VAT on education, uni fees are the obvious next target.
No education should be taxed.

They are subsidised. The cost per student is a lot more than 9k. And even after being subsidised they are making a loss. Read about the latest redundancies.

That doesn't mean you can't add VAT to the portion of the funding received by tuition fees though?

Michaela gets as good results as a Grammar School in a poorer area and people complain its too strict.

yes it does work, because both teachers and children become available to state schools, but with a far higher ration of teachers.

If you ban private schools, do you also ban tutoring?

state schools would benefit from the closure of all private schools

Who is going to pay for all these teachers in state schools? State schools can’t afford to pay the staff they have now