Why are private school parents punished when they remove a financial burden from the taxpayer?

[FishPhoods]

My DC do not go to private school, if I could afford it I would.

However - this policy makes no sense to me. I'm a TA. The school I work in has huge class sizes and is overstretched.

Starmer is saying that the VAT he proposes to add to private school fees will be channelled into the state education system. However we use the facilities of the local private school (swimming pool, sports fields) two days per week for no charge. If they lose their charitable status we lose access to that.

Also any money gained from VAT will potentially be outweighed by more pupils joining from the local private - or pupils who would have potentially gone but now won't. It costs the taxpayer roughly £8k per year to educate a child in the state system - we won't gain anything like that from VAT to cover the "new" pupils we acquire from the private system.

The way I see it if the rich can afford to or choose to pay for their children's education it's one less burden on the taxpayer. And making schools more expensive just makes them more elitist surely? Financially I just don't see how this makes any sense - is it just a populist thing as people generally feel aggrieved that some have the option of private education when some don't, so it's a way to punish them?

This.
If the money raised from the tax actually goes back into state schools at all. If so, which schools? What will be the criteria for deciding who gets what amount?
Will the local independent sector prop up their local state system? Will rural schools benefit more than inner city? Will state secondaries in wealthy catchment areas still receive the extra funding?

Just abolishing all private schools should solve this problem.

l don’t know why people bother. Universities aren’t interested in what school you go to.

Why are people who drive cars punished when they ease the burden on public transport...

I would be lot more impressed if Labour actually had a good plan for improving state schools. We are in a catchment for an excellent state girls school so my daughter would be fine but my son would not be so lucky. I have taught in both schools and the one he would have to go to is dire. I cannot send him there. I couldn’t last in that school myself and it was better for the teachers as they could escape to the staff room. There is so much inequality in state schools and that is not good enough. Bearing in mind over 90% of children go to state schools, I am much more interested in them. I would vote for Labour if they had a decent education policy but populist moves that disrupt children’s lives do not impress me at all. So far I am quite disappointed with Labour on this as I was hoping there might be something to feel optimistic about when it came to education.

You must be a Tory voter! I want good schools for all not just selective and not private. The narrative of giving the poor a leg up by getting them into good schools and this being the selective grammar schools doesn’t happen in the real world. Getting ride of grammar and private would mean good schools for all not just for a few but for all.

There are grammar schools in places like Skegness and Boston and poor areas of Kent and Medway.

Generally speaking poor kids don't get into them and their existence makes it more of a struggle for the secondary moderns that almost all the poorer kids go to.

The grammar school system was terrible, essentially creaming off a very small proportion of children that at one particular point in their life scored higher on some very dubious testing. Shocking that it still exists in a few areas. This sort of testing is about richer parents paying for extra coaching for the exam. It's very far removed from actual innate ability, talent and potential.

A much better system would be one where there is flexibility for children to follow a more academic pathway or a more vocational one, whichever they're best suited to, but without segregating them at age 10/11. Some children flourish later and may be suited to academics in a way that can't be measured on an 11+ exam. Equally some children might be crammed through private tuition to 'pass' the 11+ but would actually benefit more from a vocational route.

Because it’s the most effective GE fodder for Labour and without it there’s not much there

Until the segregated free bus goes by - the one you can only get on if you can tutor but pretends to be open to all, with luxury seats paid for by the tax payer, full of passengers told they have magical innate ability rather than wealth. The one that creates sink schools next door and refuses pupils with SEN.

Posters wigging out after clicking on these clear thread titles is par for the course

Absolutely not. I'd rather die and so would the Tories ha. I was being sarcastic x

Getting rid of private schools all together is fine but the current proposal just creates an even more elitist system than there currently is. It causes more problems than it resolves.

The VAT policy will increase this issue

You’ve recognised a problem and the policy will make top state more inaccessible

@Thisagainandagain @MyFirstLittlePony

Um, no they are not profit making businesses, take a look at the charity commission, they aren't allowed to make a profit

Your tree surgeon can do what he likes with his profits, employ a massive team then sit back and take the money and spend it on luxuries like private education

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow when you say 'abolish all private schools', how would that work exactly? Are you going to make it illegal to educate otherwise than in state school? Would home school be illegal too? Would you be put in jail if you started a little school in your shed for example?

Sounds a bit like communism, is it? Would you have no one allowed to earn over a certain amount, so that engineers, surgeons, pool attendants and shelf stackers earn the same, that sounds fair right?

I think the 'charity' claiming private schools call it a surplus (which they are not taxed on) and it can be spent on luxuries.

@NameChangeAgainandOncemore

Profit....

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2023/mar/12/uk-private-schools-rush-to-expand-overseas-as-profits-soar

@Thisagainandagain has to be used for their charitable purpose

You think this? I think the surplus is spent on education and bursaries for people who can't afford fees, as per the regulations, because if they were spending it on luxuries they would be shut down and/or fined.

There are plenty of charities (or not-for-profits, not all private schools are charities) who do this, and don't attract such judgement. I run one. None of them cater to sick kittens or vulnerable members of society, which is what people assume charities do. To qualify you just need to be a community focused organisation who goes about the world simply paying their staff and contributing to the economy.

We get a lot of threads on this topic because it is one of the very few ways Labour has stated it will raise money and it clearly won't work for the reasons discussed. Hence Labour supporters try to shut this conversation down. Swing voters wonder about Labour's competence and what it will mean for the choices they make that Labour disapprove of.

@Thisagainandagain this, from the FIRST LINE of that article

"profits to pay for their charitable obligations"

???

Oh my god stop them doing charitable things quick who needs that shit

Oh actually that's exactly what the government is doing by taxing them, YAY

I haven’t read the thread as getting ready for work, just the OP. But in my case, the local private school does nothing for my kids - maybe it benefits other state school children that I’m not aware of but certainly not our primary or secondary, and ours is the secondary closest to it. And my child’s primary school has 18 in its class of 24 PAN. My DC would be better off with a few more children in the class, as there would be more pupil funding to go towards the teacher, the salary etc.

You have never taught in a private school then? I have for 10 years and the same in state prior to this. The working conditions are vastly superior and the teachers I know who came from state will never return. Even if indies close then they would rather find another job than return to state.

I think private education should be expanded and encouraged for average dc.

Very bright dc will usually do well wherever they are and for dc who are not bright it will make no difference to them.

Average dc though often do well with smaller groups and extra help.
My dd was average and largely ignored at her very academic comprehensive.
If I’d had the money I would have absolutely paid for private education .

This.