Voting for Reform

[Behappyandbehave]

Would this be such a bad idea? I hate labour and tories. But I don't know enough about Reform.

My post wasn't directed at you. Its all about quality not quantity. I'm all for skilled and semi skilled immigration, but not unskilled who just put a drain on our resources.

Reform's pledges make no economic sense at all.

Reduce tax massively across the board, increase public spending. Where's the money in a broken economy?

It's just Truss all over again, only her unfunded budget broke the economy, these won't get in to do the same.

And a big part of the broken economy is the same Reform spivs who sold you Brexit. And millions of lemmings will still vote for Nige and his speculator benefactors.

I get it as a protest though, but Farage and co are as much to blame as the Tories for the mess we're in.

I'm voting Reform.

Farage has breathed some fresh momentum into an otherwise lacklustre and dreary campaign.

Most of our 'unskilled' immigration are care workers and even farage says they are skilled. Cos it is a very hard job caring for old vulnerable people

@User135644

I get it as a protest though, but Farage and co are as much to blame as the Tories for the mess we're in

As are Labour. Labour would have won the last GE had they not elected Corbyn to lead the party. The GE victory was there's on a plate, but Corbyn is a vote loser.

As are Libdems who were actually doing well and progressing nicely as a real alternative until Clegg sold their soul with the tuition fees debacle.

I think we have to face reality that ALL politicians are responsible for the mess we're in at the moment. That's why Brexit happened and why Reform WILL split the votes of both Labour and Tory in July! People want something different. Just look at Sunak and Starmer last night - neither are offering what the people actually want - they're truly two cheeks of the same arse.

I live in a very diverse area the houses immediately surrounding mine include people who Sikh, Muslim, Jews, Catholic, Protestant, atheist, Irish, Polish and a few who I don't know about. I love it. We all get on brilliantly most of us have lived here for over 15 years. Every Christmas, Eid, Hanukka and Diwali everyone wishes each other happy whatever. It's not a middle class area by any stretch. My kids friends are all a big mix of people and their lives are richer for it.

I had considered it, but only because they seemed to be the only party to acknowledge biological truths about male/female. But now that Farago is standing as leader I'll be having to re-think.

I think most people who vote Reform will be doing so as a protest vote against massive levels of immigration. I doubt anyone is expecting them to win many/any seats.

Plus we've imported over 2 million people in the last two years alone, and we still don't have enough people to do the jobs?

Not buying it.

Yes, but the current Labour couldn't have done more to distance themselves from Corbyn. It was the members that voted him, most of the PLP couldn't wait for him to go.

Lib Dems massively fucked themselves up by enabling austerity the way they do - I think they've got a lot to answer for, but Clegg and co aren't there anymore.

As I say I get Reform as a protest vote (they'll barely win a seat afterall) but if the narrative is "the economy/country is fucked" then Farage has an awful lot to answer for and he was all for the Truss budget as well. He's clueless in reality - a great campaigner though (but so was Corbyn and he indulged in fantasy politics as well).

I think they might get Clacton and possibly Boston and Skegness. Farage would be a bloody nightmare as an MP with his sole aim to disrupt.

It may be difficult, but it isn't classed as skilled. But that's a whole other issue. I believe that care workers should receive training and have relevant qualifications, with better pay. It would then improve the quality of carers we currently have, which is quite poor. Having experienced it on several occasions this past few years.

@ThisOldThang what nonsense!

www.bbc.com/news/business-64450882

I don't think most people vote on statistics.

We vote on how the vote represents us. Many of my friends are well off, own their own houses, privately educated their kids. Half vote anyone BUT Conservative and half always vote Conservative. They are the same demographic.

Have a look at this for the truth on the fiscal impact of immigration: migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-fiscal-impact-of-immigration-in-the-uk/

You'll find out that a migrant only needs to be on £10K a year to bring in more than they take out. That's because they've been educated elsewhere, so unlike a native they don't start off their working life having cost society 100Ks.

Not that I personally see anything wrong with free education for all - it just really pisses me off when people think "low skilled migrants" (🙄) don't contribute enough. They do. They may contribute more than you.

Also - who would you rather looked after you in old age, a migrant v excited at the opportunity to be in the UK, or someone (a native or whoever) who has been forced by the government to take the job to avoid losing benefits?
As for EU citizens and student finance: as a eU citizen, to get student finance you need to have had settled status since 2021. Such kids have basically grown up in the UK - they are not going to go back "home" (🙄) to avoid repaying their debts... There are now v v few EU students in universities ( they pay the same fees - £18k/year?) as the other international students... And who can afford that?

The idea that an immigrant on £10k is a net fiscal contributor to the U.K. coffers is just ludicrous. They will be contributing a few hundred pounds in VAT at best, which won't even begin to cover the cost of them being here.

For a start, most immigrants have been allowed to bring dependents who are very unlikely to work, or are children who obviously can't contribute.

Secondly, the only thing an immigrant can bring to the U.K. is their skills (or lack of them), and their dependants.

Everything else we have share. Our countryside, our roads, our h

Our housing, our schools, our doctors, nurses, dentists, teachers. Everything has to be spread a little bit more thinly across the existing population.

Yougov have Reform polling at two points behind the Tories.

I’m in farming and just want a government who takes it seriously and reduces all the bureaucratic nonsense. Reform are the closest to this but unfortunately not standing in my area

@dogsdinner

a report by the Oxford Economics research firm found that in 2019, migrants in the UK contributed £78,000 more on average to the public purse than they took out in their lifetime. Such data highlights the net positive contribution of immigrants to the UK economy, countering common negative stereotypes.

https://www.davidsonmorris.com/immigration-societal-contributions/

Exactly, it may not be 'common sense' to you, but that's the way it is according to that Oxford University report. 🤷‍♀️ Or do you not trust your own world-beating institutions? How unpatriotic,
Everything they buy support British businesses and jobs; and it wasn't that long ago that people on MN were complaining that fewer kids in primary classrooms (due to demographic changes) meant less funding and worse conditions. Not everything can be intuitively guessed.
Maybe it goes like this: government allocates funding to council depending of their population size, and the more young, healthy migrants there are in a population ( paid for by the migrants' contributions), the more natives benefit.
Although to be fair, right now, I agree it doesn't feel like the NHS is coping, but Farage wants to abolish it anyway.... He's not going to offer you European-style education and health services, if that's your primary concern.

We could argue all day as to the fiscal contribution of immigrants to the U.K. It depends on who is doing the research and what their bias is. It certainly depends greatly on which country people come from, which has obviously changed a lot in the last five years.

It's a moot point anyway, because like most people I would imagine, I'm concerned about quality of life, not GDP.

I couldn't care less if immigration is adding 20p to my household budget if the corollary is that I will never be able to afford adequate housing for my family because an extra 750,000 people are chasing the same limited housing supply.

We can never keep up with supplying the infrastructure for that level of people coming here each year, and even the politicians aren't pretending we can.

A period of zero net migration would at least give us a chance to catch up, while still allowing for over half a million visas to be issued for all the essential workers that apparently weren't among the 2.4 million people who came here in the last 2 years.

MikeRafone,

Your link is to a company which exists entirely to help businesses bring in immigrants.

Could hardly be more biased.

Also - who would you rather looked after you in old age, a migrant v excited at the opportunity to be in the UK, or someone (a native or whoever) who has been forced by the government to take the job to avoid losing benefits?

Tell me you have no experience with some of these new wave of 'carers' without telling me you have no experience with some of this new wave of carers.

We have had no end of problems.

Lazy to the point of neglect, openly contemptuous of the disabled, rude, poor English, and very rough physically with them. Clearly just there for a pay check just like you're imaginary forced British labour.

We have had a number of women who have had to start work after their children started school though (no, not all white, but all British) and they have been extremely caring, and very understanding towards our disabled residents quirks.

Sorry to say this, but this has been our experience too.

And no, it's not that dnephew is racist and only 'plays up' for some carers. That was actually implied by one agency. Most of his carers are diverse in race, and generally from the UK or Poland/Romania. They've always taken care of him like one of their own, very kind and treat him as a person who can understand them. My sister has never had a cpmplaint about them for years.

Nephew has very high needs, is non verbal and, for the want of a better word, drools.

One new carer left bruises all up his arm, she was that rough. The others have been to a one, rude to nephew and sister, very dimissive and refuse to even attempt to talk through things with dnephew before they do them, only talking to each other. They treat him like an inanimate object they have to clean and then get out as quickly as possible.

Sister has had to complain repeatedly and is very distressed about what will happen when she isn't there to do that anymore.

I also have to wonder, surely if there was shortage of care workers, wouldn't that be better? Wages would be forced to go up and it could be paid the way it had always deserved. It is often a job that women who have been out of work get after their children are older.

But I’m sure you realise not every immigrant is in the same position as you? Not everyone’s dad offers to buy them a house in London?
Fwiw, I’m an immigrant myself, but I don’t see the point in discussing immigration and certain issues connected to it based on someone’s individual financial situation.