Voting for Reform

[Behappyandbehave]

Would this be such a bad idea? I hate labour and tories. But I don't know enough about Reform.

I'm not the one who brought up HMOs. The care workers, nurses and students who have come here recently only live in HMOs in racists' imagination. In reality they live like us, in flatshare or purpose-built accommodation. Stop othering them! They're not victims of human trafficking, why would they chose a grim, unregulated HMO?
Beside which, I'm told the US are sending staff to the UK to poach our Filipino and Indian nurses as they have a shortage too.
You might see them as cockroaches but they have a choice of country they can go to and where they'll be valued.
Clearly the word "migrant" has negative connotations to you but it's not the reality of who they are.
Newsflash - the UK sends people abroad to recruit nurses, hosts them initially, and I'm pretty sure the new nurses get help in finding suitable accommodation afterwards too.

Exactly. There are some pretty grim looking HMOs in our town. Run down looking houses, bags of rubbish and discarded furniture in the front gardens.
There are also several hand car washes almost right next to each other, plus “American candy” stores on what feels like every street corner. Lots of “cash only” businesses.
It seems like there is a separate parallel economy there, “underground” and yet in plain sight.

Well yes, it is unbiased, and I've never said it says anything other than what you said. There's nothing magic about the migrants that makes them more fiscally beneficial to the UK, it's obviously linked to the fact that they are young, healthy and single for the most part. And haven't cost the UK taxpayer anything for their education, which is also obvious.
Should they have kids or get ill, the picture changes, of course, but they may leave before that, or move to another sunny country that's in need of their skill... Who knows how long the visas are issued for, for the various skills shortage occupations?
It's just wrong to say, like I read on this thread, "they need to earn £45k before they contribute so if they are carers, they are costing us."

@inamarina I'm only talking about the latest wave of legal immigration: the students, carers and nurses, they don't live in grim HMOs. Obviously it's different for victims of human trafficking and asylum seekers who are kept in the UK in terrrible conditions for months if not years before they get a decision on their case.

I might be wrong of course, but people living in HMOs and other run down looking houses in our area often seem to be Eastern Europeans. I would imagine they came over before the Brexit deadline couple of years ago, so not necessarily victims of human trafficking (and I’m obviously not saying all Eastern Europeans live in houses like that).
Isn’t it migration in general that is being discussed on this thread? Not just well off international students, hard working nurses or other sought after professionals.
I think that’s often the issue with discussions around migration.
Some people see nearly all migrants as net contributors and an asset for the host society, whereas others focus mainly on negative examples (like criminals).
The reality is much more nuanced though, and it should be possible to discuss certain issues.

I live in a multicultural city, where I’m very much in the minority in our particular area. I am vehemently against Reform.

I’m voting reform as I don’t trust labour or conservatives … you don’t have to hate foreigners to vote reform … I certainly don’t hate them, controlled immigration is a good thing …. The ILLEGAL and UNCONTROLLED immigration is what most people oppose, the problem is the media lie and misinterpret it as they are trouble makers they won’t print the truth.

If you trust the limited company of Reform, with no democratic accountability (no members just a company of stooges spouting sound bites) then you’re more gullible than most, thankfully.

Think of what the Tory party have done to this country, then amplify it. More division, more poverty, more economic instability, more decline and a whole load of nothing positive.

They’re the political equivalent of a half-cut pub bore who thinks they have all the answers. They don’t have any answers though to the true problems; they’re just there to profit (from you) and then scarper, to probably some tax haven or the US once they fail.

They’re charlatans imo. Dont fall for it.

I completely agree that Reform would be a disaster at running the country, but I don't think we need to worry as they haven't got the slightest chance of getting into power.

I see it as a protest vote towards politicians who pay lip service towards what voters want, but then do exactly what suits them/their pockets.

@Fawful I'm absolutely gobsmacked and disgusted by your comprehension and interpretation of my post. What you have said is, vile.

Apologies, @Swingingvvoter, I don't know how it related to any of your posts either. I obviously mixed up several posts, I'm sorry.
I just get really upset when migrants are described as living in HMOs, not speaking English, and only here transiently, it feels othering to me, but I realise it's not what you were saying. It's the contrast between my experience working with hundreds of migrants over the years who they were all in the UK pretty much for the fun of it, and the fact that blooming HMOs get brought up pretty much all the time in immigration debates, that really gets me. But not an excuse, so all apologies to yo.

But are you a racist bigot? If not pick someone else

Yawn.

Yeah, sure, I'm a racist bigot.

Whatever.

The problem with overuse particularly misuse, of important and potent words is that they rapidly lose their effectiveness to communicate any meaning.

If you keep using them inaccurately against people you don't agree with, they cease to matter.

Or do you genuinely believe that so many people are racist bigots in the UK?

I don't think that many people in Britain are racist bigots, but unfortunately reform who are racism bigots are very good at dressing up racism as sense. I hate them with a passion. Divisive, destructive populists.

A period of zero net migration would at least give us a chance to catch up

it would decimate the state pension, that’s not bias but fact. We don’t as a country have enough workers, immigrants are of working age and paying tax. We won’t catch up it’ll be a big head on crash

You need to read their full manifesto to get a genuine feel for what they're about and what they stand for. I read it tonight and the brief overview statement sounded very inline with my ideologies at first...but when I started reading through each individual policy proposal and section there were a lot of things that made me feel realy uneasy; Their whole ethos is about restoring Traditional British values which I agree we need to a certain extent because as a Country we have gone Completely OTT with political correctness and red tape, but a lot of their proposals will put us a country in a vulnerable position defence wise, health wise and security wise. Some of their proposals are so far the other way it would seem they want to hurl the Country back into a 1960's way of living where mental health and hidden additional needs and illnesses weren't recognised, men go to work and the wife whilst the wife is chained to ironing board, kids don't have additional needs they just need a good slap. etc. Our attitude as a society has advanced since then. A lot of it for the better and completely undoing every modern attitude and policy, from the last 60 years isn't going to help move the country forward, its going to send it backwards and completely alienate and divide us from the rest of modern world!

Rubbish.

Yeah it’s an ad hominem attack because they’re frightened they can’t deal with the substance of the argument and everyone is beginning to see it.

Interesting to see how Rayner and Mordaunt were so busy scrapping with one another that they failed to see how much ground they ceded to Farage. He seems to be the take home winner of last night's debates - and not by a small margin, across all the polling I have seen.

Unless people have just become a lot more bigoted this week compared to last, when Reform had the same policies, then it might be time to suggest that Farage represents a shake up that people feel is required. That business as usual, with the two main parties which Denyer described as without a fag packet between them, just isn't cutting it.

Behing Farage are nasty rich US billionaires and their ilk who are gaming the decline of the west to makes loads of money. It's snakeoil he's selling don't fall for it.

Rubbish rubbish rubbish

It would allow an element of "catching up" in housing, as the housing shortage is getting more and more desperate and spreading to areas that previously didn't suffer the same kind of shortage & obscene pricing as London/SE. Unless you've actually tried to rent a small house or flat recently, most people don't realise just how insane the shortages are. My son had to offer to pay a year upfront and pay 10% more than the asking price to secure a tiny one bedroom flat which was the only one he managed to even view after six months of trying. That wasn't even in London/SE or another major city! We need a massive home buying/property conversion initiative before we should consider any more immigration.

"Almost no Brits would pass the ridiculous Life In the UK test."

Why on earth not? I just did the sample 24 questions and scored 22. I lost one point from carelessness and one because sport.

If you live here and care about the UK you absorb this kind of information over the years. Also it used to be, and should be, taught in schools. What is so wrong with people knowing about their country??

I just scored 100%, but I'm probably not the average Brit.

I did too but I didn’t think I’m special, what makes you think you are?