AIBU to think no one agrees with conscription. Does Rushi want to loose the election? This feels like a threat not and election promise?

[Catchlock]

This has been popping up on my SM overnight. I feel like Rushinis doing his best to throw this election.

Who exactly thinks Conscription is a good idea and how would it work??

Also it’s very clear the Conservatives are worried about Reform. They are trying to shore up their remaining vote. It will be interesting to see the polls next week. I think Reform will have a bump in intention.

I assume your son is young for his school year, hence the study work aspect you speak of.
I agree, it would be better if this was spanned over a few years. Previous National service spanned ages 17-21 and you could defer. Macrons NS instigated in 2021 spans a few years as well.

It would make a lot more sense to do this but as this is just a proposal I dare say, like all policies, there would be lot of refining.

As a dentist who happily worked in NHS dentistry until Labour introduced the current contract which created far more problems than it solved , I’m a little touchy about the subject.
The way the contract works results in dentists frequently doing a large amount of treatment for free. When you are paid the same amount to do one filling or 21 fillings you face a moral and ethical dilemma, do you work at a loss or do you practice supervised neglect.
The contract was never fit for purpose and based on fantasy socialistic idealism. It was intended to force dentists out of the NHS, simultaneously laying the blame at their feet.
Many of us struggled on trying to make it work, but the introduced of CQC was the nail in the coffin for most. In addition the rising costs to patients were not passed on to the dentists, resulting in patients paying most of the cost ( unknowingly), for some practices they ended up paying money back to the government either because they couldn’t make target or because their UDA rate was lower than the fee paid by the patient.

So yes most of us have probably done up to 25% of the work for the NHS for free.
Labour has achieved its goal and I’m sure will move to the intended core service when they return.
Yes, dentistry will be more accessible but with very limited service. And it will cost more.

If we lived in a truly socialist society where everyone was paid the same whatever job they undertake, believe me dentistry would be bottom of my list.
I love the job but if stacking shelves in Tesco attracted the same pay I would be stacking shelves in Tesco.

I am also very happy to do volunteer work but not in dentistry😂

I sent screen shots not a link.
Cant you see the screen shots….I assumed they’d be fine

80 countries do National Service.
People fought in wars.

Children are used to having to do stuff
going to school…we all force our kids to do this
wearing a uniform
brushing our teeth
sitting exams.

Whats so different about volunteering our time, it’s not like kids aren’t used to being told what to do and it’s not like volunteering is bad for you.

I believe you but since then we had 14 years of Conservatives in power and this question came up again and again.
Why didn’t they (conservatives) do something about it?

There are countries where women don't have the same rights as men. I'm sure they will insist it works well so shall we do that too?

Also 18 year olds aren't "kids" in the UK. They are legally adults. Why is it okay to make some adults do national service but not others? It's particularly bad (and I'm sure no coincidence) that everyone currently eligible to vote won't have to do the service.

I’m trying ( bad eyesight 🥲) thank you

Very good point although maybe using a wider age span for it would be better anyway.
Most countries do and it gives an option of differing to another time within that span. That’s what happened in the previous NS.

I should also say I shouldn’t have used the term kids in my PP.
I suppose I was trying to say after living by certain rules up to age 18 etc etc

There is no chance that it would be a vote winner if the supporters were giving up their own free time, particularly as it would cost tax payer money for them to do so.

I'd be willing to bet 100% of the supporters would.not be supporting if it was THEM that would have to do the NS. It's easy when it's someone else though isn't it?

I agree
Its definitely not a vote winner anything that impedes on lifestyle choices never is.

I have an interest in Duke of Ed. And whilst I absolutely support the idea of voluntary work (I volunteered in my teens and for many years as an adult) I find it astonishing how difficult it actually is for the kids to find interesting & worthwhile voluntary work within the time requirements. It takes a lot to co-ordinate/insure/comply with safeguarding/not be taking paid work away from someone in legitimately paid employment. So whilst in theory this proposal may have some benefit, I really do wonder about it in practice.

It also seems to devalue those kids who sign up for the armed forces or voluntary work... well... voluntarily, if the country is then saying to all those with no other plans/motivation - you are being scooped in too.

Instead, I'd love to see that money ploughed into schemes for young people to keep them occupied, give them social and practical life skills (a certain level of basic nursing very helpful and would ease services) and optimistic and engaged in their futures, with strong emphasis on sustainability projects. Make it aspirational, but with equality of opportunity, so that it is seen as desirable to opt in. I suppose similar to the scouts or guides - although those organisations have sort of been highjacked by those who can afford & where more parents are willing and able to volunteer, when really they are most desparately needed in areas where perhaps that is less likely to be the case.

As a mother of teens, conscription is a total turn off to me. And to militarise a generation seems spectacularly not where the world should be focusing it's energy. We have so few years left to make a useful difference to our environment. Can we please focus on sustainability - getting people to work with the land/soil/rivers/crops etc even for a brief while so that they understand the delicate balance of nature and have at least some optimism and engagement of real, genuine worth. If nothing else, some fresh air with their peers of all walks of life to expand horizons and experience views and opinions outside their own social bubble.

Of course! The people who like this want other people to do it. They don't think they themselves should have to. They'd all have flat feet, if the occasion actually arose.

Blithely going on about how it works in other countries is pointless too. Of the countries where it actually exists and is practiced, some are autocratic and the people don't get a choice, so it doesn't matter how popular it is. Eg Eritrea, North Korea, Russia.

The democracies that have it are mostly close to a neighbour who periodically attempts to invade. That's why it exists in Finland, Taiwan, Israel etc. There are a few countries, like Switzerland, who have it although they don't tick either of these boxes, but not many. Free democracies who aren't liable to be invaded any time soon mostly don't have it. There is a reason for that.

@NamechangeRugby Volunteering for under 18s is hard because as you say safeguarding applies. It means that most tasks that can be given out are routine e.g. stacking dishwasher and tidying up at lunch club. Volunteering roles for 16 and 17 year olds that would be interesting require training and a fair amount of supervision. It makes no sense to spend money on this when the young person may disappear in a months time costing the charity money.
The general rule with volunteering is that the more involved you are, the more likely you will be offered more interesting roles.

@WoshPank I agree. If France were likely to invade us it would make sense to have national service. You would position young people at various strategic points to watch the coast and alert more trained troops that the French were coming. You would get them involved in fire watching when bombs are dropped and helping civilians evacuate from houses near the coast - drive those people who do not have a car to the shelter, make tea and soup for everyone.

We are not at risk of invasion. The risk to the UK is of nuclear bombs, and wars fought on foreign land. A national service trained young people can not help us with that.

Exactly this. If we had the same geography and border as, say, Estonia, of course our attitudes to compulsory national service would be different.

But we know that Russia targets us differently, in a sort of way that most of the adult/just adult male population knowing how to use a gun wouldn't help with.

It's all smoke & mirrors, while everyone is talking about this they aren't talking about everything they have failed on, plus the cost of living & the economy.

I'm not sure it's been very successful smoke and mirrors, then. Because they've created a load of talk about how they must be totally desperate and how it doesn't matter because they're completely fucked anyway.

Surely the conscription idea is to appeal to the blue rinse brigade....who will probably vote Conservative anyway.

I'm not sure it will appeal to them.

Labour have addressed the issue, somewhat humorously:

https://www.tiktok.com/@uklabour/video/7373305521308257569?_r=1&_t=8mh7258e0tl

It's meant to appeal to the reform base I think

"Apparantly, there will be no exceptions around working, Uni etc. or even health, in most cases. "

There would have to be exceptions. There will be some like my own son who clearly couldn't do it but there will be many others where it won't be as clear cut. It will take them a lot of time to sort that one.