National Service if Tories are re-elected

[MaryMaryVeryContrary]

Thoughts? 🍿

I considered volunteering but decided against it, more because of language issues than not wanting to do it. But there is a lot of problems with sexism and harassment in the Finnish service at least so no surprise not many women volunteer (a thousand or so each year I think)

It’s not volunteering if it’s compulsory…
Whats your evidence that young people need to learn to give back? Many, many young people already do.

It's a poorly thought out plan which won't ever be implemented. Not sure what the point of it is, perhaps to appeal to traditional Tory posters.

I'm in Austria. There's National Military Service for 18 year old males who are Austrian citizens. Females don't have to do it (though they can do a year's voluntary service in a community role if they wish). Males who are not Austrian (of which there are large numbers of 18 year olds due to current and historical migration) are exempt.
If young men don't want to do the military service or don't pass the medical they have to do a year's service in the community (such as in a care home, Red Cross etc).
If you want to become an Austrian citizen and are a male under the age of 35 you have to do the compulsory military service before you can be naturalized (hence a lot of people waiting until they are older than 35 to become a citizen).

There was talk about stopping it but in the end I think it was decided that it was valuable for the young people and also for the community to have volunteers available to work for a year BUT it's a completely different situation to the UK. Young men know in advance they will have to do this and they apply to university after they have completed it.
The UK is a completely different country and I don't think it's workable, especially not the volunteering one weekend a month thing which isn't going to work either for the organizations or the young people. There will be so much administration needed to deal with all of these volunteers and staffing to train them.
On top of that you have a lot of disaffected youth, which I suppose is what the Torys think they would be tackling. We don't have disaffected youth to that extent in Austria yet. If they don't want to be there and don't want to volunteer and are forced to do so there's going to be no end of problems with their behaviour and voluntary organizations or the army/navy/RAF are supposed to deal with them??

My Dad used to teach Adult Education Classes. At that time (can't remember the exact dates) the local council in the UK had some kind of scheme going on with compulsory classes for young people who had left school at 16. I'm not sure of the details, but the upshot of it was, the young people turned up for registration and then left and hung around smoking, drinking and chucking stuff at people walking by, sometimes chucking bricks through the windows of the centre. There was no dealing with them.
It's a major problem and I have no idea how the Tories think those types of young people could be integrated into a scheme like they are planning.

Complete and utter nonsense.

I don't know why this is but this past four yrs of Tories just seem so past it and past all their best ideas and harking back to the past . They seem to be unable to move to future and keep harking back to the past to you know the days of conscription , hanging and starvation . Why ?

I'm not suggesting we've come close to conscription since the 2nd WW FFS so enough of your patronizing lack of history knowledge please.

A pp said national service would leave the concept of being called up 'hanging over' todays teens.

I was merely pointing out if the the situation was necessary they already have conscription 'hanging over them' because that is existing law (whether it's been 70 years or 7 years since it was acted on).

I disagree.

Firstly it would get in the way of university and 18 year being able to have part time weekend jobs like they do now which is needed when you're a student living in this financial climate.

Secondly what about the neurodiverse or those with physical or mental health issues?

Thirdly and most importantly; I think people have a rose tinted view of armed forces life;My eldest is in the armed forces and I can tell you it's tough,you have to want to be in the armed forces,if you don't have the right attitude you won't get through even basic training and a large amount of recruits don't make it through basic training and that's with those people who actually made the choice to sign up in the first place.

Forcing 18 year olds into this would be a violation of their human rights and I doubt it'll even come to pass anyway;I can foresee protests,riots etc.

There's a reason it was scrapped over 60 years ago.

In cypress there is a national service and there is a high suicide rate amongst those conscripted into national service.

Cardibach
**
It’s not volunteering if it’s compulsory…
Whats your evidence that young people need to learn to give back? Many, many young people already do

👏👏👏

I would hope that equality will apply to shit things as well as good things in the UK. I am against this canon fodder plan, but girls can shoot/litter pick as well as boys.

In cypress there is a national service and there is a high suicide rate amongst those conscripted into national service

Exactly, Tories (including the proven link between Gove's retrograde education reform and worsened mental health in young people) have given the UK one of the worst mental health rankings among young people in the entire world, now they want to add this into the mix also... National service has not been shown to be a treatment for anxiety and depression as far as I know.

You and your loved ones first into Dad’s Army, then Lulu.

It was to do with Ireland that got mentioned at soem point !

Quite a number of young people already volunteer. Our DS does. Anyone who does the Duke of Edinburgh award has to find a volunteer post and many of them, including DS, stay on as a volunteer after they achieve their DofE. So I assume, as he already volunteers in the community, that counts?

But, logistically, every school would have to find someone to liaise with the 'community groups' finding this voluntary job if they don't do National Service.

Every community group (hospital, GPs, fire service etc) would have to have someone doing the admin and liaising with internal departments to find the roles. And every department taking part would have to have someone finding the young person something to do every time they turn up and overseeing it.

And if these organisations have all these people who can give up their actual work to oversee a teenager for 25 days each year, why do we hear that there a big hole in staffing?

Answer...organisations DON'T have people just sitting around waiting to oversee all these young people. They are rushing from job to job every day. They'd have to pull people off work to deal with these students. Or the government will somehow have to recruit co-ordinators and pay overtime for people to come in each weekend to oversee the work. Ready to begin in September 2025. And if they can do that, they can get this huge hole in our public services filled the same way and offer more money for apprenticeships.

We had 350 kids in our DS's Year 11. They are now in sixth form, college or doing apprenticeships. So that's 350 kids becoming 18 by next September when this is due to start. We have 5 other secondary schools in our area. My calculations make it 1000 students plus in our area alone that will all have to find placements of some sort and have someone to oversee their day. Assume half go to National Service, that's still 500 young people or thereabouts wandering around NHS, fire etc doing ad hoc work in this area alone!

It’s for those not in education.

For young women as well as young men? I couldn’t see on the guardian whether this was aimed at both sexes.
I think this would be the making of many young males (regardless of how they identify!) and I could see it being very beneficial for society, but I don’t support this for young women. Of course they should have the option to join military, as young women do now, but it shouldn’t be compulsory for the same way it would be for men. It’s dangerous to pretend there isn’t a difference between the two sexes in regards to physical ability, men failing at sports can take women’s top places. Women are more likely to be assaulted physically and sexually. If he is intending this for both sexes, it’s very worrisome and shows how out of touch he is. General consensus in my circles is he is la-la land! Can 100% understand the logic behind the benefits if for young men though.

ThatWarmSquid · Today 12:42
For young women as well as young men? I couldn’t see on the guardian whether this was aimed at both sexes.
I think this would be the making of many young males (regardless of how they identify!) and I could see it being very beneficial for society, but I don’t support this for young women. Of course they should have the option to join military, as young women do now, but it shouldn’t be compulsory for the same way it would be for men. It’s dangerous to pretend there isn’t a difference between the two sexes in regards to physical ability, men failing at sports can take women’s top places. Women are more likely to be assaulted physically and sexually. If he is intending this for both sexes, it’s very worrisome and shows how out of touch he is. General consensus in my circles is he is la-la land! Can 100% understand the logic behind the benefits if for young men though”

So you’re not in favour of equality?

No I don’t think so. Some did go on to continue it voluntarily in sixth form but everyone else could drop out (and that was the end of that).

It’s not. It’s for all 18 year olds as per the announcement.

BBC website interview with James Cleverly said 'The Conservatives have set out a pledge for all 18-year-olds to take part in a mandatory scheme for military or non-military service if they win the general election.'

Not all male 18 year olds, all 18 year olds.

Ah right!

I initially thought it was targeted for NEETs, so those not in education etc. but appears it’s for all 18yos. But there are only 30,000 places in the military option, so majority will be doing the ‘compulsory’ volunteering

Desperately trying to claw back some votes from the right who may be tempted to vote Reform etc. Not a serious suggestion from a party expecting to stay in power.

I was pointing out that if you do army option they are already saying they will recall as necessary.

So if you do army option you can be recalled at whim of politicians for currently unspecified number of years. So even if you've just taken out a mortgage expecting kids doesn't matter some future politician can recall you - not peers who did 25 days option but you and they aren't saying what criteria would be used - they are already saying it's a benefit to the idea.

This is not the same as conscription when country is facing invasion - this is an additional burden for one who choose the military option which at 18 - which then hang over then and not their peers.

You may think this is a great idea - all I said having heard this being stated already as a benefit I'm even more reluctant for my teens in this age group even conciser that as an option - because I don't what that extra burden to bite them in the arse in future years.

We've had very little support elder family members, community or last 14 years of government to raise our kids - they already volunteering , working and study facing a economic landscape that the most adverse for generations. If you think me looking out for my kids is patronising - well fuck you and yours and hope some of the crap my families dealt with last 14 hits you and yours next - because I'm fucking done.

So do you have just daughters then?

I agree but still feel a bit miffed at his suggestion .
I have 3 kids 2 of which have never been unemployed and 1 about to leave school for college, all have been raised to become contributing members of society and to be respectful and well mannered .
Maybe this kind of teaching should be a big part of education from reception onwards rather than a compulsory thing to be done after 'the horse has bolted' which sadly would be the case for many 18year olds today.
I wonder what other ideas he will be throwing around leading up to the election🙄

I’ve just heard someone on the radio saying they can’t process or house new recruits anyway. If they sorted that it would help numbers enormously and if they increased wages with inflation.

He did think it was a great idea for those that wanted to be trained up, but a massive cost.

It gives the idea that 18 year olds are hanging around with nothing to do - whereas many of them have jobs, children, caring responsibilities, in the middle of training elsewhere, travelling.

I know someone who dragged all 3 of her sons back to her home country to do national service. It was kinda bananas.