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General election 2024

National Service if Tories are re-elected

1000 replies

MaryMaryVeryContrary · 25/05/2024 22:13

Thoughts? 🍿 Grin

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19
SidandAndyssextoy · 26/05/2024 11:25

BestZebbie · 26/05/2024 11:21

Apparently the purpose is to get people to "mix outside their bubble" - but isn't that supposed to be one of the much-touted purposes of school....which 18yr olds will have been doing for most of their lives to that point?

I think the ‘bubble’ that this is trying to pop is the dreaded woke one. There is an element of the Tory culture war in all this.

LuluBlakey1 · 26/05/2024 11:26

RunAwayTurnAwayRunAwayTurnAway · 26/05/2024 11:23

Over my dead body would they take my child.

Retired Soldiers have horrific life experiences post serving; homelessness, substance dependence, PTSD, domestic abuse and family breakdown, social and emotional collapse. Why would it be beneficial to introduce 18 year olds to this?

18 year olds are incredibly vulnerable, who in their right mind would trust the British Government to be in charge of their welfare?

It might come to that if there is a war.

Carly944 · 26/05/2024 11:27

dollybird · 26/05/2024 11:25

Isn't compulsory volunteering just community service by another name? I.e. usually a punishment for breaking the law? Why should 18 year olds who've done nothing wrong be punished?

I think rishi is following other EU countries, where conscription is already in place for teenagers

Polishedshoesalways · 26/05/2024 11:27

Scruffily · 26/05/2024 11:14

Someone - Cleverly? - claimed it wasn't a new idea and actually they've been working on it for some time. But, given that a substantial element of the party has been working on bringing Sunak down for some time, you have to wonder if there is a correlation there.

Or perhaps the explanation is that they've only partially worked through it and, given more time, they would have reached the inevitable conclusion that it was unworkable and junked it; however, they haven't had that extra time because Sunak sprung the election on them, they were desperate to produce something shiny and new, so they dragged this one out of the cupboard to appeal to the right wing.

It certainly looks like RS is being sabotaged from the inside, too many coincidences. I don’t buy the idea they are blowing themselves up on the way out. After all, public humiliation isn’t a very attractive to anyone hoping to work after their political career.

Someone will be dusting down RS’s US property no doubt. Cleaning out the pool.

KnittedCardi · 26/05/2024 11:27

It's not a right wing idea per se. Plenty of socialist European countries have some form of conscription, the Nordics for example. France is just about to re-introduce too.

UOTC is incredibly popular, with waiting lists. I don't think it is an idea that is quite as "out there" as people are suggesting, or that young people wouldn't want to do. I know lots of kids, boys and girls, would did OTC at school, or Air Force Cadets. Then do UOTC at uni, they get paid, and get a lot of good experiences. Many then get bursaries for training in cyber security, and other high tech industries. Quite a few go on to be medics.

MrsSkylerWhite · 26/05/2024 11:28

tennesseewhiskey1 · Yesterday 22:57
I’m in favour of it - I’m from a country where this is mandatory

What’s that got to do with the price of fish? I’m from the UK and completely oppose the idea.
We could go round and round all day like that.

Won’t happen. Young people are far more worldly now than they were when this country was involved in the world wars and hundreds of thousands would just refuse.

Professional soldiers do not want to serve alongside “volunteers” and conscripts who don’t want to be there and are a PITA. If a Government wants a professional army it needs to train properly, fully equip, decently house /feed and pay its soldiers properly.

Desperate attempt to win back Reform voters.

WoshPank · 26/05/2024 11:28

LuluBlakey1 · 26/05/2024 11:26

It might come to that if there is a war.

If there is a war, it's vanishingly unlikely to be the sort of conflict that requires the physical conscription of everyone's untrained 18 year olds. We'd need highly trained professionals, both military and otherwise. Which is what we should be using resources to plan for now.

Natsku · 26/05/2024 11:29

The punishment for not doing service in my country is 6 months (minimum length of service) house arrest usually. Warrant issued for your arrest automatically if you don't attend call up day (happened to me actually, as I was mistakingly registered as male somehow). No need to waste time with courts as its pretty much an automatic sentence - there's no defence against it. But of course that punishment would cost money so I can't see the UK doing it.

Polishedshoesalways · 26/05/2024 11:29

MrsSkylerWhite · 26/05/2024 11:28

tennesseewhiskey1 · Yesterday 22:57
I’m in favour of it - I’m from a country where this is mandatory

What’s that got to do with the price of fish? I’m from the UK and completely oppose the idea.
We could go round and round all day like that.

Won’t happen. Young people are far more worldly now than they were when this country was involved in the world wars and hundreds of thousands would just refuse.

Professional soldiers do not want to serve alongside “volunteers” and conscripts who don’t want to be there and are a PITA. If a Government wants a professional army it needs to train properly, fully equip, decently house /feed and pay its soldiers properly.

Desperate attempt to win back Reform voters.

I am assuming some reform voters are also parents and grandparents too, they are not headless zombies with no regard for life. I assume they will feel much the same as we do.

Carly944 · 26/05/2024 11:30

Natsku · 26/05/2024 11:29

The punishment for not doing service in my country is 6 months (minimum length of service) house arrest usually. Warrant issued for your arrest automatically if you don't attend call up day (happened to me actually, as I was mistakingly registered as male somehow). No need to waste time with courts as its pretty much an automatic sentence - there's no defence against it. But of course that punishment would cost money so I can't see the UK doing it.

What country is that?

MagicFox · 26/05/2024 11:30

If there is a war, it's vanishingly unlikely to be the sort of conflict that requires the physical conscription of everyone's untrained 18 year olds. We'd need highly trained professionals, both military and otherwise. Which is what we should be using resources to plan for now.

A hundred yeses to this!

Natsku · 26/05/2024 11:30

Won’t happen. Young people are far more worldly now than they were when this country was involved in the world wars and hundreds of thousands would just refuse

Young people are worldly in my country too yet vanishingly few refuse

Iwasafool · 26/05/2024 11:30

caffelatte100 · 26/05/2024 11:25

I think that's it!

The military is very masculine - maybe the girls don't feel welcome or they would be in the minority. My daughter doesn't want to do it.

So it doesn't offer enough positive things to make girls want to do it? Doesn't sound that great.

cardibach · 26/05/2024 11:30

WoshPank · 26/05/2024 11:22

I guess one could be right wing whilst also understanding that they clearly would have no intention of actually doing this. In the very unlikely event of the Tories miraculously getting back in, it would be kicked into the long grass because it's completely unworkable.

So they’re proposing something, which will presumably be in the manifesto since it’s just been announced, but have no intention of ever doing it? Sounds a bit shifty and untrustworthy to me.

GiantTagliatelle · 26/05/2024 11:30

LuluBlakey1 · 26/05/2024 11:25

There is a very large contingency of older people who volunteer-much of the social infrastructure of the country would grind to a stop without them .

I was talking to a Community Furniture group run by a north-east council. They pay three staff and have 25-30 volunteers (part-time doing varying amounts but all making a commitment) who go out on vans collecting the furniture, load it up, take it back to the depot, clean it up, run the warehouse, take the phone calls , book the collections, arrange deliveries. Plus they get staff on 'work experience' from the 'unemployment office'. They are mainly people 50+. Some are late 60s/early 70s.

The heritage centre I volunteer at has about 30 volunteers and 2 full time paid staff and 2 part-time paid centre staff plus a part-time paid cleaner 2 hrs a day. It includes a cafe, exhibition space, gallery , small shop and events space. Volunteers range between late 30s to late 70s. They serve in the cafe, shop, have an exhibitions team, run walks, talks, classes, raise funds, run reception, do the admin. No doubt but that it would close without them.

FIL has created a really robust refugee support project at the church he and MIL go to. It is entirely staffed and run by volunteers- it offers benefits advice, social support- drop-in mornings/afternoons where coffee and cake or lunch is available, a playgroup (MIL does this😁), clothing (they are always collecting clothing, washing it, DH's 90+ grandma mends things), access to interpreters, advocacy support , help with furniture needs. All done by volunteers mainly aged 55+, a couple of younger women.

I do some bird warden stuff through an environmental charity and it is astonishing what a group of local people have organised. There are groups like this all over the country who spend many hours weekly monitoring wildlife numbers, creating and protecting habitats for them, looking after injured creatures. Again they are mainly older people (probably 40+ mainly). Locally we have a species group doing staggering work with one rapidly declining bird species- self set-up, self-funded, low-key and I'd say all of them are 65+.

Thanks for the explanation of all the things you do but it’s somewhat wasted as I clearly said in a previous post that if people are already volunteering then that should qualify as their “service” / not be affected

Natsku · 26/05/2024 11:30

Carly944 · 26/05/2024 11:30

What country is that?

Finland

SidandAndyssextoy · 26/05/2024 11:30

Natsku · 26/05/2024 11:29

The punishment for not doing service in my country is 6 months (minimum length of service) house arrest usually. Warrant issued for your arrest automatically if you don't attend call up day (happened to me actually, as I was mistakingly registered as male somehow). No need to waste time with courts as its pretty much an automatic sentence - there's no defence against it. But of course that punishment would cost money so I can't see the UK doing it.

It’s also out of line with our own justice system, and unenforceable.

WoshPank · 26/05/2024 11:31

Natsku · 26/05/2024 11:29

The punishment for not doing service in my country is 6 months (minimum length of service) house arrest usually. Warrant issued for your arrest automatically if you don't attend call up day (happened to me actually, as I was mistakingly registered as male somehow). No need to waste time with courts as its pretty much an automatic sentence - there's no defence against it. But of course that punishment would cost money so I can't see the UK doing it.

Yeah, the Finns don't have the luxury of being able to outsource it to Crapita/some odious Tory donor/relative of Rishi's wife.

Natsku · 26/05/2024 11:31

WoshPank · 26/05/2024 11:28

If there is a war, it's vanishingly unlikely to be the sort of conflict that requires the physical conscription of everyone's untrained 18 year olds. We'd need highly trained professionals, both military and otherwise. Which is what we should be using resources to plan for now.

Well of course you don't want untrained 18 year olds fighting in a war. That's why you train them while its still peacetime, so if the worst happens and war comes, they are already trained and can be called up from the reserves.

WoshPank · 26/05/2024 11:31

cardibach · 26/05/2024 11:30

So they’re proposing something, which will presumably be in the manifesto since it’s just been announced, but have no intention of ever doing it? Sounds a bit shifty and untrustworthy to me.

It is indeed!

bombastix · 26/05/2024 11:32

dollybird · 26/05/2024 11:25

Isn't compulsory volunteering just community service by another name? I.e. usually a punishment for breaking the law? Why should 18 year olds who've done nothing wrong be punished?

Well clearly they have the temerity to be young, and possibly enjoying themselves in ways that are not approved of by the Conservatives and their supporters. Controlling codswallop from people who would never tolerate this level of state interference in their own lives.

Natsku · 26/05/2024 11:33

WoshPank · 26/05/2024 11:31

Yeah, the Finns don't have the luxury of being able to outsource it to Crapita/some odious Tory donor/relative of Rishi's wife.

Can just imagine how a Tory outsourced national service would work (or wouldn't work, as would be more accurate), with everything underfunded and unworkable and someone getting rich off it.

Polishedshoesalways · 26/05/2024 11:33

bombastix · 26/05/2024 11:32

Well clearly they have the temerity to be young, and possibly enjoying themselves in ways that are not approved of by the Conservatives and their supporters. Controlling codswallop from people who would never tolerate this level of state interference in their own lives.

I am a supporter and I don’t agree with this at all!

LuluBlakey1 · 26/05/2024 11:33

Dobbyhorse · 26/05/2024 11:14

Apparently next weeks policy announcements are the reintroduction of….

Rickets
Rationing
Rotary dial telephones
Greenshield Stamps

Greenshield Stamps is Jeremy Hunt's replacement for National Insurance. You'll need :
10 books for one 10 minute GP visit.
100 books for a referral to a specialist
1000 books for an appendectomy
10,000 for a major op
1 million for a State Pension

10,000 for each year of school for each child
20,000 for a year of adult social care

You'll be able to buy the stamps at the supermarket or corner shop, win them on the lottery (no more cash wins). They'll be produced by companies run by Tory croneys who will be allowed to make a vast profit on them.

They won't be transferable and will have a no inal value so if you die with lots left they just revert to being able to swop them for tat like a £20 quid plastic bathroom set or a rug.

BloodyHellKenAgain · 26/05/2024 11:34

While I'm clearly not keen to the army section - for all the reasons people mentioned and for fact its' already been said they could be called up in later years as needed and I don't think it's fair to have that hanging over them.

Don't all men over 18 have conscription 'hanging over them' already?

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