National Service if Tories are re-elected

[MaryMaryVeryContrary]

Thoughts? 🍿

His dc won’t be here for much longer is my first thought, so it won’t affect them conveniently.

The sort of people this is idea targeting don’t believe teenagers like your daughter exist. As far as they’re concerned all 18 year olds are doing weed in the park/mugging old ladies etc (that’s what the press has told them relentlessly). Even on mumsnet where you’d expect from the demographic people would know plenty of under 18s/teenagers there have been lots of comments on this thread berating teenagers for their lack of discipline, drive etc etc while simultaneously getting upset if anyone criticised the over 60s. Hence why there’s been no thought into the practicalities, how it would work for teenagers in employment, with caring responsibilities, who want to go to university etc. In fact, all this government (and their client media) has done is demonise the younger generation then act surprised that they’re not rushing to sign up to do military service for a government/population that despises them.

Playing the age groups against each other is just a continuation of the Schrödinger’s immigrant problem (simultaneously coming over here to steal jobs whilst also drain the state on benefits). The population starts to fight amongst itself so it doesn’t point the finger at those at the top who are actually responsible for the decline in nearly every aspect of national life.

Terrible news about yesterday.

I still find the joke funny. I find it possible to hold two things that are connected in my head in different spaces.

HTH.

They said that, but it's a punt with nothing to back it up. National service certainly doesn't achieve that in every society where it's practiced, after all. It's a guess predicated on the assumption that it would be valued and would achieve anything useful.

You've agreed yourself that the UK version of this would be underfunded and unworkable, so how does that turn into a normal and accepted part of life?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-69059992

• "Home Secretary James Cleverly said the Conservatives' plan to reintroduce national service would address social fragmentation and get young people "out of their bubble"

So it'e on political programs being touted as policy.

The Tories haven't set out how it will work. Instead, they say they will establish a public inquiry tasked with coming up with the details of how the scheme would function.
Here's a summary of some of the finer points we do already know:

• The number of military placements under the scheme would be 30,000. At any given time, there are roughly three quarters of a million over-18s in the UK
• The number of volunteering days needed to complete national service requirements will be 25 over the course of a year
• The military placements will be "selective" and reserved for "brightest and best"
• They will cover logistics, cyber security, procurement and civil response operations
• While the Tories say a pilot for the scheme would be in place by 2025, the full programme could take four or five years after the election to enact

They want brightest and best in military - so NEETS are likely to be doing the 25 days volunteering requirements.

Not at all. Brexit obviously limited options for a lot of people, but there are millions of dual citizens in the UK. Including virtually everyone in one of our constituent countries. A few of them are from places devastated by war and famine, but by no means all. It's been a very long time since there was a famine in my other country of citizenship.

It's worked ,they have as Steve Bannon said flooded the place of discourse with shit so we are talking about something that will never happen than something more useful. Whatever they have seized the high ground.

I know NS stopped in 1960, but I'm referring to plain conscription - ie we are suddenly at war and men over 18 are called up. Presumably that is still law, although not talked about.

Coming to a manifesto near you, in the next month:
bring back hanging
public executions
all over 65s to work down the mines for a year
all 18 year olds to work until they are 85
all asylum seekers to be deported to Rwanda
pay for GP and hospital treatment
compulsory euthanasia for 'extremists'

don't forget to vote for Rishi!!!!

the public as a whole have more power to help improve society, eg litter pickers, etc all these add up.

I think this is a great idea. We could send all the 18 year olds to Rwanda to help build accomodation for failed asylum seekers. .

That's a very interesting post. I imagine the Swiss government enjoys a lot more credibility and goodwill from its citizens, partly because it is so very well organized and partly because Switzerland, unlike the UK, obviously has a track record of not rushing blindly into stupid military adventures. (I was near Basel for work a couple of weeks ago and I couldn't believe how gorgeous and CLEAN everything was! It was like after a decade and a half of Tory austerity and then living in rust belt eastern France, I'd forgotten what a first world country looks like.)

@BloodyHellKenAgain
That's meant to be for an existential threat ie invasion

I’m wondering if Rishi dreamt this up just to get people talking about the Tory party - good or bad - and divert attention away from whatever Kier is currently saying. I mean, it’s got people talking here.

It completely unworkable. What happens to 18 year olds who have a baby, or are a full time carer to their parent? Some 18 year olds are deep into County Lines activities, they’re going to give it all up for a stint in the military?

It’s just attention diverting dreamt up by a useless PR team.

Dual citizens are obviously different and have different options. For people without that, moving abroad to a country outside Europe with (as most have) visa restrictions, limitations on family contact and support networks owing to distance, political issues, employment prospects etc is quite challenging.

Not that I’ve ever said I’d leave: I’d rather be part of the solution. But Brexit has reduced the options of an awful lot of people obviously.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1XZgE0ZYDU4&pp=ygUcUmlzaGkgc3VuYWsgbmF0aW9uYWwgc2VydmljZQ%3D%3D

Video released this morning.

I just think none of the parties want to be in number 10 at the moment and this is their way of not getting in by all having something controversial they say they want to do.

they all looked a the crap Boris had to deal with and thought, hell no, someone else can have a go at whatever is coming next.

I’m hoping none.

A properly organised and appropriately funded version of course, not one that the Tories dream up. But my point is that it is possible to have a national service that is widely popular and works well, and that if that were the case, people would adjust as they realise that it works well. But the UK track record of organising things isn't great, so I wouldn't have high hopes of that happening there, unless they got people from countries with well run national services to set up the system and train the Brits to run it.

They need to sort the probation service out first.. another perfectly good public service broken by tories..

Natsku · Today 11:30

**
Young people are worldly in my country too yet vanishingly few refuse”

Presumably because they’ve grown up with the idea and are just accepting of it. It’s a very different story, reimposing something that was abolished 60 or so years ago for good reasons.

Yes, I realise that. But nevertheless I don't imagine men over 18 feel it 'hangs over them' which was my original point.

What I find particularly abhorrent is that the people he’s polled who want this policy are the generation who were never expected to do national service themselves, and wouldn’t be expected to now. So yet again it’s old people making decisions on behalf of young people that they wouldn’t ever have had to countenance.

Personally I think we should ditch the triple lock and tell pensioners to stop going on expensive holidays if they can’t afford to live. That, and create a compulsory volunteering policy, whereby anyone who retires must spend the first 5 years of their retirement volunteering in the NHS to ‘serve their country’ and earn their pensions, given that over 60% of benefits the country is in the hole for is pensions.

I’m only half joking.

Russia does pose an existential threat , and is on a daily basis threatening UK with Sarmat , Iskander , 2000 mph missiles and underwater Tsar bombs which would tidal wave us.... If we went to war our military will be hopelessly overstretched ....... while Finland or Switzerland would have no problem calling up half a miilion trained soldiers within a few weeks.

And if its introduced (properly, not the way that's being suggested now) then in time British young people would be accepting of, because they'll have grown up with the idea. Change doesn't happen overnight, but it doesn't happen at all if people don't try changes, even if they're unpopular to begin with.

But I reiterate, that the current plan is not a good one, and I am very very sure it would not work (and would get quietly swept under the carpet in the unlikely event the Tories actually win the election)