National Service if Tories are re-elected

[MaryMaryVeryContrary]

Thoughts? 🍿

Apparently next weeks policy announcements are the reintroduction of….

Rickets
Rationing
Rotary dial telephones
Greenshield Stamps

If it is so positive why do you think girls don't want to do it?

That's really telling. If it was as beneficial as you say, you would think women would be flocking to join in.

All broadcast by an AI version of Jimmy Saville !

Well I wonder if it will make the manifesto. They should be publishing one soon.

No, I was referring to the privilege of drawing a state pension.
I don't think you can compare amount of tax paid on a generation by generation basis. I have paid much, much more tax than my grandparents but that doesn't mean I should be eligible for more state benefits.

Yes, it would work better as a job guarantee scheme. Entirely voluntary, and paid at minimum wage, which needs to be higher for young people. Possibly costly, but then leaving important work undone can also be costly (lack of maintenance of physical infrastructure leading to costlier deterioration, etc) Plus it could function as a kind of modest economic stimulus, putting money in the pockets of those who would likely spend it. Unlike during covid when my boomer parents got a free ten grand for having a vacant holiday home.

Why keep banging on that it’s to appease the right wing, I suspect most conservative voters will think it’s an absolutely ridiculous idea, talk about knocking a hole in a sinking ship, it’s a crazy idea!

Maybe UK youth have just got the same mindset as Swiss females.

I'll have the stamps, please! My parents got some lovely wine glasses. They didn't drink wine, but we felt well posh.

Probably most of them wouldn't mind a Rolex !

The volunteering aspect of his big idea is something that already exists. Ie the national citizenship service that Rishi actually pulled most of the funding from.
That was/is voluntary but even then with fewer people taking part young people still struggled to get placements. Organisations simply do not want hoards of inexperienced young people working for them especially when they don't want to be there. Managing them takes up more time than they have and just means more work

I don't think you have to be in charge of Tory policy to explain why you think something!

The problem with the ideas you have here is that they leave massive gaps, particularly when they're supposed to function as a sanction for something more than missing out on a glorified day trip. Basically, you're talking about people who want to be part of the system. As a poster mentioned upthread, we have hundreds of thousands of NEETS now. Sanctions predicated on not being allowed to buy in obviously don't work so well on people who aren't doing it anyway. Most 18 year olds don't go to university, and the UK isn't the only available option for the ones who do.

In order for fines to have teeth, you need a system that actually levies them and can enforce them. That is not the UK court system as things stand. The capacity isn't there.

I do actually believe in council tax, so that wasn't a great example. There are probably some things I do because of the sanctions rather than a specific desire, though I can't think of one at the moment. The possibility of a fine certainly wouldn't deter me from facilitating my teens in non-cooperation if they didn't want to do this, though. We're not reliant on the state for our money and have multiple passports, so there'd be options. The same would be true of lots of people of the 'buying in' classes.

You’re the one saying this is a great idea and that if you were 18 you’d jump at the chance.

I think is a shit idea, so why would I volunteer to sew uniforms etc?

PP said Labour won't bring ins 16 voting - they have in Wales already my 16 year old can vote in the Senedd Elections and Local Council elections. So I don't see it as a huge leap to change that nationally for UK wide elections.

While I'm clearly not keen to the army section - for all the reasons people mentioned and for fact its' already been said they could be called up in later years as needed and I don't think it's fair to have that hanging over them.

The volunteering for 25 days also seems poorly thought through.

DC here have to do welsh bac qualification - DC doing 4 A-levels had to do qualification which had requirement for 30 hours of volunteering - middle child enjoyed it and found somewhere close by but it was a nightmare pre covid when they were supposed to find somewhere to take Y10 especially as eldest was a late summer birthday - as none wanted kids that young. We in a city no idea how more rural pupils cope.

Eldest was just 18 before heading off to uni - DN is 17 working at weekends and full time in college - both of them have work and projects that count to grades in "holiday" times. Eldest had volunteered in her area - that not an "approved area" listed so far so not a service area. So even 25 days eats in earning power and study time.

You can also leave school here at 16 still - and some do many go into trades - so they'll have been working full time couple of years then suddenly have to find time to volunteer on top of full time work.

It just screams out to touch and back of fag packet policy making. It won't happen as they stand no chance - but I think it made their poor outlook worse.

Apparently the purpose is to get people to "mix outside their bubble" - but isn't that supposed to be one of the much-touted purposes of school....which 18yr olds will have been doing for most of their lives to that point?

Yes it is crazy. However, the point about it being right wing is well made. What would it take for someone who is still intending to vote Conservative at this stage of the game to NOT do so? If you feel it’s crazy, but are still going to vote for them, then you are very right wing.

I guess one could be right wing whilst also understanding that they clearly would have no intention of actually doing this. In the very unlikely event of the Tories miraculously getting back in, it would be kicked into the long grass because it's completely unworkable.

The tories have decimated the armed forces, and now would like our teenagers to fill in the gaps.... Rishi and his merry band of imbeciles need to get the fuck out 🙄

Yes, we have our own bunker too.

Over my dead body would they take my child.

Retired Soldiers have horrific life experiences post serving; homelessness, substance dependence, PTSD, domestic abuse and family breakdown, social and emotional collapse. Why would it be beneficial to introduce 18 year olds to this?

18 year olds are incredibly vulnerable, who in their right mind would trust the British Government to be in charge of their welfare?

There is a very large contingency of older people who volunteer-much of the social infrastructure of the country would grind to a stop without them .

I was talking to a Community Furniture group run by a north-east council. They pay three staff and have 25-30 volunteers (part-time doing varying amounts but all making a commitment) who go out on vans collecting the furniture, load it up, take it back to the depot, clean it up, run the warehouse, take the phone calls , book the collections, arrange deliveries. Plus they get staff on 'work experience' from the 'unemployment office'. They are mainly people 50+. Some are late 60s/early 70s.

The heritage centre I volunteer at has about 30 volunteers and 2 full time paid staff and 2 part-time paid centre staff plus a part-time paid cleaner 2 hrs a day. It includes a cafe, exhibition space, gallery , small shop and events space. Volunteers range between late 30s to late 70s. They serve in the cafe, shop, have an exhibitions team, run walks, talks, classes, raise funds, run reception, do the admin. No doubt but that it would close without them.

FIL has created a really robust refugee support project at the church he and MIL go to. It is entirely staffed and run by volunteers- it offers benefits advice, social support- drop-in mornings/afternoons where coffee and cake or lunch is available, a playgroup (MIL does this😁), clothing (they are always collecting clothing, washing it, DH's 90+ grandma mends things), access to interpreters, advocacy support , help with furniture needs. All done by volunteers mainly aged 55+, a couple of younger women.

I do some bird warden stuff through an environmental charity and it is astonishing what a group of local people have organised. There are groups like this all over the country who spend many hours weekly monitoring wildlife numbers, creating and protecting habitats for them, looking after injured creatures. Again they are mainly older people (probably 40+ mainly). Locally we have a species group doing staggering work with one rapidly declining bird species- self set-up, self-funded, low-key and I'd say all of them are 65+.

I definitely don't think that any teenager should be forced into doing anything they don't want to do.

I can't see teenagers really doing forced volunteering.

How can they physically make them go if they don't want to

I think that's it!

The military is very masculine - maybe the girls don't feel welcome or they would be in the minority. My daughter doesn't want to do it.

Isn't compulsory volunteering just community service by another name? I.e. usually a punishment for breaking the law? Why should 18 year olds who've done nothing wrong be punished?