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General election 2024

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To think the UK will become a barren, post-apocalyptic, dystopian, hell-scape if Labour win?

713 replies

Fiftypencepiece · 24/05/2024 13:02

AIBU to be worried that within 2-3 years of a Labour victory, the UK will become a barren, post-apocalyptic, dystopian hell-scape?

Kier Starmer seems like a mad, leftist radical to me. It starts with VAT on school fees but where does it end???

I’m also really concerned that the imminent collapse of civilisation will have a big impact on house prices, and leave us in negative equity.

Anyone else?

OP posts:
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25
Dorisbonson · 07/11/2024 17:10

Interested to see that the Labour party cancelled a partnership between Eton College and sixth form college in Middlesbrough and a £1m grant from Eton to that college. The partnerships Eton plan ed with sixth form colleges in two other towns also look to be blocked by Labour.

How can this possibly benefit students? How is it good for students in Middlesbrough to lose out on a 1 million pound grant and Eton College support for tuition and education? Other than class hatred what possible reason could there be for Labour to do that?

On top of this the Labour government has asked boarding schools to discount their fees for government employees in the army and foreign office because of the hardship caused by fee increases! Its utterly ridiculous.

BIossomtoes · 07/11/2024 17:37

Dorisbonson · 07/11/2024 17:10

Interested to see that the Labour party cancelled a partnership between Eton College and sixth form college in Middlesbrough and a £1m grant from Eton to that college. The partnerships Eton plan ed with sixth form colleges in two other towns also look to be blocked by Labour.

How can this possibly benefit students? How is it good for students in Middlesbrough to lose out on a 1 million pound grant and Eton College support for tuition and education? Other than class hatred what possible reason could there be for Labour to do that?

On top of this the Labour government has asked boarding schools to discount their fees for government employees in the army and foreign office because of the hardship caused by fee increases! Its utterly ridiculous.

Edited

You mean this one? The one that’s under review to ensure the money provides the best value and greatest benefits to kids in Teeside?

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/politicians-react-strongly-eton-star-30223114

Eton Star Teesside 'on pause' as government review education plans

One Labour councillor said that the news was ‘welcome’ whilst a former Tory MP called it a ‘tragic decision’

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/politicians-react-strongly-eton-star-30223114

Llhaaf · 09/11/2024 08:11

It always amazes me.

Taking people with (real) disabilities out of it, the people who take the most from this country put in the least. Often due to lack of interest in education and work. Many people choose not to work, or to work very little, choose not to value education and training and then claim benefits, taking tens, if not hundreds of thousands from the state over a lifetime.

Taking people who inherited big wealth out of it, the people who take the least are those who work and who have put education and training first and who have chosen to get jobs, work long hours, go for promotions etc and these people tend to be entitled to nothing, despite what they put in.

The people living largely on benefits however sometimes believe that they are entitled to more free money, as they want a lifestyle equal to what the working people have. So they demand the working people pay even more into the system, so it can be handed to them.

The working people sometimes don’t want to pay more as this reduces their standard of living, to not much better than non-working people, which makes all of their hard work redundant and pointless. That student loan - pointless. Those long hours - pointless. That training and upskilling - pointless.

The Labour government for some reason seem to side with the people who want to live off benefits. I have no idea why?
The working people are told they should want to work hard for the benefit of the country and business and to have efficient and modern services, but they shouldn’t expect recompense.

It’s all very weird to me. Surely a line should be drawn between support and dependancy …if we reduced benefits, taking them entirely away for people who weren’t born here and who haven’t been here over say 10 years, more people would want (need) to work. And if we allowed working people to keep more of their money, there would be even more desire to train and progress and services and business would benefit and the country would develop faster?

Our benefits bill is staggering. Surely a welfare country is not a good thing. Ok, it can be argued that reducing or withdrawing welfare could push some people further into poverty, I’d argue that unless there is a good reason they aren’t working, that’s on them. Accountability. Responsibility.

But, because Labour do not think the same as me, we will just see the welfare bill grow instead. At some point it will become pointless to work…me myself, I work full time, but to save money I am dropping down to four days. How can that be right? lol. How does that benefit the country? There are too many safety nets and the safety nets are too big.

So what’s the point? Unless work buys me a house, nice holidays, a car, some luxuries, a social life etc…what’s the point?

So our Labour government I’m sure will make the problem worse and at the same time will be giving our taxes away for vanity projects, so yep. Wasteland.

IClaudine · 09/11/2024 08:51

the people who take the least are those who work and who have put education and training first and who have chosen to get jobs, work long hours, go for promotions etc and these people tend to be entitled to nothing, despite what they put in

No child benefit? These people don't use roads, public transport, the NHS? They won't bother taking the State Pension?

The benefit bashing on MN is so pathetic. There are some people on long term benefits who could work but don't, but most people who claim benefits do so genuinely.

I worked for nearly forty years. Now I claim Carer's Allowance as I am a full time carer (saving the state a lot of money as a paid carer would cost a lot more than me). I have put and continue to put plenty into the system. I pay tax on that Carer's Allowance, too.

Eta: this shows that a very small percentage of poeople claim unemployment benefit long term.

www.health.org.uk/evidence-hub/work/employment-and-underemployment/trends-in-unemployment-and-long-term-unemployment

Llhaaf · 09/11/2024 09:07

IClaudine · 09/11/2024 08:51

the people who take the least are those who work and who have put education and training first and who have chosen to get jobs, work long hours, go for promotions etc and these people tend to be entitled to nothing, despite what they put in

No child benefit? These people don't use roads, public transport, the NHS? They won't bother taking the State Pension?

The benefit bashing on MN is so pathetic. There are some people on long term benefits who could work but don't, but most people who claim benefits do so genuinely.

I worked for nearly forty years. Now I claim Carer's Allowance as I am a full time carer (saving the state a lot of money as a paid carer would cost a lot more than me). I have put and continue to put plenty into the system. I pay tax on that Carer's Allowance, too.

Eta: this shows that a very small percentage of poeople claim unemployment benefit long term.

www.health.org.uk/evidence-hub/work/employment-and-underemployment/trends-in-unemployment-and-long-term-unemployment

Edited

Very true. However people on benefits are also entitled to all of those things plus extra.

I never got child benefit. I use roads and pay road tax. I don’t use public transportation as it’s not very good where I am. The NHS is crap and despite trying to use it from time to time, I never get anywhere. There’s either a lack of appointments or I have to work. I’d rather keep my NI contributions and then I could afford private healthcare. And there have been whispers that governments are being advised to means test the state pension. I’ve got a private pension, so will I still be eligible when I get there?

Meanwhile people who live off benefits will get all of the above, plus more and they’ll have more time to visit the doctor and they have welfare money, maybe their council tax and rent paid etc so it stands that they do take more, but pay in less.

The people who are living off unemployment, why do we need to pay them? If they decide not to work, shouldn’t they take accountability for that.

BIossomtoes · 09/11/2024 09:13

The people who are living off unemployment, why do we need to pay them?

Because the majority aren’t choosing not to work. I know just one person who’s on universal credit because they’re unemployed. They’re a recent graduate with a year to fill before going on to do a PhD, perfectly willing to work yet got turned down to stack shelves in Sainsbury’s.

Llhaaf · 09/11/2024 09:15

BIossomtoes · 09/11/2024 09:13

The people who are living off unemployment, why do we need to pay them?

Because the majority aren’t choosing not to work. I know just one person who’s on universal credit because they’re unemployed. They’re a recent graduate with a year to fill before going on to do a PhD, perfectly willing to work yet got turned down to stack shelves in Sainsbury’s.

Edited

But if we didn’t pay them, they would have to find a job?

Even if they didn’t like that job. They could keep looking.

Or perhaps if people in receipt of welfare (unrelated to disability or caring) had to carry out work for the country and were allocated roles such as cleaning streets or schools etc. So they are working for their money.

I simply disagree that people should be able to sit around for 30 years doing nothing.

You know one person, but I know many who are taking the absolute mick. Someone in my (edited to add extended) family made a career out of claiming welfare.

pointythings · 09/11/2024 09:31

Llhaaf · 09/11/2024 09:15

But if we didn’t pay them, they would have to find a job?

Even if they didn’t like that job. They could keep looking.

Or perhaps if people in receipt of welfare (unrelated to disability or caring) had to carry out work for the country and were allocated roles such as cleaning streets or schools etc. So they are working for their money.

I simply disagree that people should be able to sit around for 30 years doing nothing.

You know one person, but I know many who are taking the absolute mick. Someone in my (edited to add extended) family made a career out of claiming welfare.

Edited

Here we go again - make them work for their benefits, workfare... It's been tried, it failed. What you end up with is people working for less than NMW. That isn't acceptable.

I don't care that your cousin's aunt's grandmother's neighbour has been on benefits all their life, is scamming the system and has somehow told you every detail of their life so that you're qualified to judge. If you want to get people into work, you need to support them to get there. That means affordable childcare, adult literacy support, shortening waiting lists for mental health services.

It's amazing how rich people need to be GIVEN money as an incentive, whereas poor people always need to have it taken away. And no, I'm not on any benefits, I work full time and always have.

Llhaaf · 09/11/2024 09:36

pointythings · 09/11/2024 09:31

Here we go again - make them work for their benefits, workfare... It's been tried, it failed. What you end up with is people working for less than NMW. That isn't acceptable.

I don't care that your cousin's aunt's grandmother's neighbour has been on benefits all their life, is scamming the system and has somehow told you every detail of their life so that you're qualified to judge. If you want to get people into work, you need to support them to get there. That means affordable childcare, adult literacy support, shortening waiting lists for mental health services.

It's amazing how rich people need to be GIVEN money as an incentive, whereas poor people always need to have it taken away. And no, I'm not on any benefits, I work full time and always have.

Then we’ll have to agree to disagree. I think having no money or having to work for less than NMW is a great incentive to getting a job. Any job.

I don’t think people deserve money for nothing for the most part.

A safety net - yes, with a time limit.

Alexandra2001 · 09/11/2024 09:48

Llhaaf · 09/11/2024 08:11

It always amazes me.

Taking people with (real) disabilities out of it, the people who take the most from this country put in the least. Often due to lack of interest in education and work. Many people choose not to work, or to work very little, choose not to value education and training and then claim benefits, taking tens, if not hundreds of thousands from the state over a lifetime.

Taking people who inherited big wealth out of it, the people who take the least are those who work and who have put education and training first and who have chosen to get jobs, work long hours, go for promotions etc and these people tend to be entitled to nothing, despite what they put in.

The people living largely on benefits however sometimes believe that they are entitled to more free money, as they want a lifestyle equal to what the working people have. So they demand the working people pay even more into the system, so it can be handed to them.

The working people sometimes don’t want to pay more as this reduces their standard of living, to not much better than non-working people, which makes all of their hard work redundant and pointless. That student loan - pointless. Those long hours - pointless. That training and upskilling - pointless.

The Labour government for some reason seem to side with the people who want to live off benefits. I have no idea why?
The working people are told they should want to work hard for the benefit of the country and business and to have efficient and modern services, but they shouldn’t expect recompense.

It’s all very weird to me. Surely a line should be drawn between support and dependancy …if we reduced benefits, taking them entirely away for people who weren’t born here and who haven’t been here over say 10 years, more people would want (need) to work. And if we allowed working people to keep more of their money, there would be even more desire to train and progress and services and business would benefit and the country would develop faster?

Our benefits bill is staggering. Surely a welfare country is not a good thing. Ok, it can be argued that reducing or withdrawing welfare could push some people further into poverty, I’d argue that unless there is a good reason they aren’t working, that’s on them. Accountability. Responsibility.

But, because Labour do not think the same as me, we will just see the welfare bill grow instead. At some point it will become pointless to work…me myself, I work full time, but to save money I am dropping down to four days. How can that be right? lol. How does that benefit the country? There are too many safety nets and the safety nets are too big.

So what’s the point? Unless work buys me a house, nice holidays, a car, some luxuries, a social life etc…what’s the point?

So our Labour government I’m sure will make the problem worse and at the same time will be giving our taxes away for vanity projects, so yep. Wasteland.

The benefits bill, excluding pensions, but inc disabled numbers, sky rocketed under the Tories....
It happened right under their noses and they did absolutely nothing about it.

As did NHS waiting lists, which is a big reason people claim benefits & something Lab will address, leading to lower benefits....

So it amazes me why you post that its Labour who side with benefit claimants.

One of the biggest "vanity projects" happened under the Cons, HS2 and the £30 billion wasted after the cancellation of the leg from Birmingham.

My DD went to Uni, now back in the NHS earning 38k per year, helping people live independently with severe injury.... early 20s... her partner works for a private company and earns even more...... so stop peddling this rubbish that study/work doesn't pay.

IClaudine · 09/11/2024 09:51

,Then we’ll have to agree to disagree. I think having no money or having to work for less than NMW is a great incentive to getting a job. Any job

Well you know @Llhaaf you could always emigrate to a country which treats the poor and vulnerable like shit if you don't like how it is done here. Trumpland would be a good fit for you.

Llhaaf · 09/11/2024 09:52

Alexandra2001 · 09/11/2024 09:48

The benefits bill, excluding pensions, but inc disabled numbers, sky rocketed under the Tories....
It happened right under their noses and they did absolutely nothing about it.

As did NHS waiting lists, which is a big reason people claim benefits & something Lab will address, leading to lower benefits....

So it amazes me why you post that its Labour who side with benefit claimants.

One of the biggest "vanity projects" happened under the Cons, HS2 and the £30 billion wasted after the cancellation of the leg from Birmingham.

My DD went to Uni, now back in the NHS earning 38k per year, helping people live independently with severe injury.... early 20s... her partner works for a private company and earns even more...... so stop peddling this rubbish that study/work doesn't pay.

Edited

I agree conservatives were awful.

Labour is just as bad.

Work does pay. But the government are intent on taking as much of our earnings as they can get away with. Work should pay more. Work should offer people a much much better standard of living. There should be a huge gap between working and not working.

But of course, that’s just my point of view. I accept it will not be everyone’s.

Llhaaf · 09/11/2024 09:53

IClaudine · 09/11/2024 09:51

,Then we’ll have to agree to disagree. I think having no money or having to work for less than NMW is a great incentive to getting a job. Any job

Well you know @Llhaaf you could always emigrate to a country which treats the poor and vulnerable like shit if you don't like how it is done here. Trumpland would be a good fit for you.

Edited

I wish.

IClaudine · 09/11/2024 09:55

Llhaaf · 09/11/2024 09:53

I wish.

What's stopping you?

Alexandra2001 · 09/11/2024 09:59

Llhaaf · 09/11/2024 09:52

I agree conservatives were awful.

Labour is just as bad.

Work does pay. But the government are intent on taking as much of our earnings as they can get away with. Work should pay more. Work should offer people a much much better standard of living. There should be a huge gap between working and not working.

But of course, that’s just my point of view. I accept it will not be everyone’s.

but there is already a huge difference, JSA/UC for my DD would be around £90 per week, she'd then get £300 for rent....if not living at home... & nothing for CT either.

So less than £700 per month, as opposed to £1600 take home on NMW or £2600 on her wage.

Its different if the claimant has children but should the child suffer because of the parent?

Labours budget did not increase the tax payable by the vast majority, it was the Tories who have increased taxation on working people, not least freezing tax thresholds, at least Labour have given a date at which they will be unfrozen....

Llhaaf · 09/11/2024 10:00

IClaudine · 09/11/2024 09:55

What's stopping you?

The entry requirements into the US are quite difficult to meet (rightly so) particularly requiring sufficient funds.

Unlike the UK, I can’t just turn up to the US and stay there. They won’t pay my hotel and they won’t give me free money.

My job doesn’t have any links to the US so going through work isn’t an option.

I’m already married.

People generally don’t have rights to turn up to the US and just live there. I wouldn’t mind though. Imagine living on a ranch in Wyoming. Beautiful.

IClaudine · 09/11/2024 10:02

Unlike the UK, I can’t just turn up to the US and stay there. They won’t pay my hotel and they won’t give me free money

Well done for shoehorning that in!

Llhaaf · 09/11/2024 10:05

Alexandra2001 · 09/11/2024 09:59

but there is already a huge difference, JSA/UC for my DD would be around £90 per week, she'd then get £300 for rent....if not living at home... & nothing for CT either.

So less than £700 per month, as opposed to £1600 take home on NMW or £2600 on her wage.

Its different if the claimant has children but should the child suffer because of the parent?

Labours budget did not increase the tax payable by the vast majority, it was the Tories who have increased taxation on working people, not least freezing tax thresholds, at least Labour have given a date at which they will be unfrozen....

Edited

I’m at the point where I think we need better incentives to work and take responsibility.

I don’t want children to suffer, but perhaps parents shouldn’t be excessively helped. Perhaps they should have food and clothing parcels instead of money. Whatever it takes to get people back into work and the welfare bill down.

I realise that’s not a popular opinion, but the problem is getting worse. And I’m sick of working and seeing not no benefit….but not the benefit I want to see for the effort I put in.

I want a government who won’t give money away willy nilly. Millions on migrant hotels, transport fees around London.

I sound cruel. I understand. But twenty years ago I felt better off than I do today and I can only see it getting worse with the attitude to welfare.

Llhaaf · 09/11/2024 10:05

IClaudine · 09/11/2024 10:02

Unlike the UK, I can’t just turn up to the US and stay there. They won’t pay my hotel and they won’t give me free money

Well done for shoehorning that in!

It’s true isn’t it?

BIossomtoes · 09/11/2024 10:21

But if we didn’t pay them, they would have to find a job?

How? How do you make an employer offer someone who’s unemployed a job? Surely the fact that a supermarket turns down a graduate for shelf stacking must tell you something?

Llhaaf · 09/11/2024 10:26

BIossomtoes · 09/11/2024 10:21

But if we didn’t pay them, they would have to find a job?

How? How do you make an employer offer someone who’s unemployed a job? Surely the fact that a supermarket turns down a graduate for shelf stacking must tell you something?

You don’t just apply for one job surely. You’d have to apply for many.

I believe in the welfare system as a safety net. I already stated I think around 6 months is fair.

How many jobs could you apply for in that time?

The problem is some people will apply for zero.

Look, I’m not a policy maker. I am just answering a question with my opinion. I think the last government were rubbish. The current one is worse and the UK is not going to get better. I will try Reform next time.

IClaudine · 09/11/2024 10:29

Llhaaf · 09/11/2024 10:05

It’s true isn’t it?

Not generally, no.

1.2 million people came to the UK in 2023. Only a fraction of those were asylum seekers who were put up in hotels etc. 56,000 were in hotels as of September 2023.

BIossomtoes · 09/11/2024 10:30

Applying for jobs and getting them are two entirely different things. 🤷‍♀️

BourbonsAreOverated · 09/11/2024 10:32

Llhaaf · 09/11/2024 10:05

I’m at the point where I think we need better incentives to work and take responsibility.

I don’t want children to suffer, but perhaps parents shouldn’t be excessively helped. Perhaps they should have food and clothing parcels instead of money. Whatever it takes to get people back into work and the welfare bill down.

I realise that’s not a popular opinion, but the problem is getting worse. And I’m sick of working and seeing not no benefit….but not the benefit I want to see for the effort I put in.

I want a government who won’t give money away willy nilly. Millions on migrant hotels, transport fees around London.

I sound cruel. I understand. But twenty years ago I felt better off than I do today and I can only see it getting worse with the attitude to welfare.

I’m not sure anyone is excessively helped in this climate.
I think helping with more support for retraining (bursaries) more help with childcare costs, availability for shift work,
more social support like sure start centres, social workers able to support more low level cases to nip generational issues in the bud and wraparound school care would be much better than food parcels and clothes parcels.
Where no one really benefits but the outsourced private provider of those things.

IClaudine · 09/11/2024 10:34

Llhaaf · 09/11/2024 10:26

You don’t just apply for one job surely. You’d have to apply for many.

I believe in the welfare system as a safety net. I already stated I think around 6 months is fair.

How many jobs could you apply for in that time?

The problem is some people will apply for zero.

Look, I’m not a policy maker. I am just answering a question with my opinion. I think the last government were rubbish. The current one is worse and the UK is not going to get better. I will try Reform next time.

You do know that people can't get away with not applying for jobs? They are sanctioned if they don't.

www.gov.uk/government/statistics/benefit-sanctions-statistics-to-may-2024/benefit-sanctions-statistics-to-may-2024#sanction-decisions-and-reasons